Saturn in Pisces: Hating the Light and Hating Weakness

Hey everyone, this is Adam Elenbaas from Nightlight Astrology, and today we are going to take yet another look at Saturn's recent entrance into the sign of Pisces. Today we're going to take a look at it from the traditional association that ancient astrologers made between Saturn and the 12th house and that modern astrologers make between the 12th house in Pisces through the conflation of what is sometimes called the ABC house system.

So, in modern astrology, astrologers will associate the meanings of the houses with the 12 signs. Aries equals the first house Taurus equals the second house. From this standpoint, modern astrologers have often associated the 12th house with Pisces. Now ancient astrology, there was a totally different rationale that went into the meaning of the 12th house that was not conflated with the sign of Pisces that meanings of the 12th house don't originally come from the sign of Pisces. Nonetheless, there are some interesting associations that modern astrologers make between the 12th and Pisces. And that ancient astrologers made with Saturn in the 12th house. The 12th house was called The Joy of Saturn.

There's an interesting passage we're going to take a look at today from one of my favorite books written by Liz Greene called Saturn a New Look at an Old Devil. And it's a great book. It's written by Liz Greene, who's a very famous modern psychological astrologer. And someone who I think has a really good perspective. Your has a really good perspective on the associations with Saturn Pisces and the 12th house. I was reading this passage, and I was like, there's some really good stuff in here that we're going to take a look at. And so that is our agenda for today.

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Okay, let's take a look at the real-time clock just to remind everybody on March 7, we had the entrance of Saturn into Pisces first time since the early to mid-90s that Saturn has been in the sign of Pisces, and here it is on Wednesday, March 15. That's today. So what we're going to do is just take a look at some of these, and we also have a big lineup of planets in Pisces this week that we have been taking a look at. And those planets are all square to Mars in Gemini, and we've been taking a look at that as the week has gone on. We're going to shift gears a little bit and talk about some of the themes that Saturn in Pisces brings to brings into the spotlight.

We're going to talk about three reasons that Saturn in Pisces tends to hate the light. It's a strong phrase, but you know, for fun. I don't know if it's fun. But there are three reasons you could say that Saturn and Pisces resents or envies, or even will, like attack the light. And then there are three reasons that Saturn in Pisces also does not like or even hates weakness. And so there are two extremes. Saturn can hate things that look bright and luminous in the sign of Pisces that appear to be strong. Saturn in Pisces can also take real issue with things that appear to be really weak. Well, why this dichotomy? That's what we're going to discuss today.

So to start off, I want to read you guys a passage that comes from Liz Greene. I mentioned the book Saturn, a new look at an old devil. And now, again, she conflates Pisces with the 12th house. And in ancient astrology there was there wasn't the houses were not associated with nor did they take their meaning from the signs. So we call that the 12 Letter alphabet. You could basically say modern astrologers were trying to understand where the meanings of the houses came from. And, in doing so, just assumed that Aries had something to do with the topics of the first house and Taurus with the second, and so on.

So in ancient astrology, there's an entirely different rationale behind where the topics of the houses come from that has nothing to do with the signs. But there are planetary associations with some of the houses. So, for example, Saturn was said to rejoice in the 12th house, and the 12th house was called malice daimon, which means the evil spirit. It's a very diverse and interesting house; it doesn't it's not necessarily as bad as it sounds. Saturn was associated with that house.

So modern astrologers, interestingly, have associated the 12th house with Pisces and with Neptune because they'll just place the sign in the planet that they say rules the sign over the house and then suggest that the topics come from the sign or vice versa. So through that conflation, though, I think there's an interesting web of associations that both modern and traditional astrologers would make between Pisces, the 12th house, and Saturn, which is really it's just kind of interesting. So I want to read you what Liz Green wrote, and then we're going to talk about how it leads to three reasons that Saturn does not like the light and three reasons that Saturn does not like weakness in the sign of Pisces. So here we go.

This is so this comes from a section where she takes Saturn through, put Saturn in Pisces and the 12th house, and talks about it. So again, if you're a traditional astrologer filter, the 12 Letter alphabet piece of this, the 12th house as the last in the circle and lying hidden behind the ascendant or outward behavior, symbolizes both endings and beginnings. It is the end because it represents the sacrifice that must ultimately be made of the conscious personality as a separation unit.

From a more obtuse point of view, that represents the beginning because it refers to those causes from the past which operating from birth and below the level of consciousness. Draw to us those situations which require that we lose ourselves and die to be reborn into group consciousness. From water all life comes, says the Koran, and this house reflecting Pisces and Neptune, the ancient God of the Waters, suggests that plane where life and undifferentiated and without individuality first sprang and where wise with the lessons of individual consciousness it must eventually return. Even shorn of its more esoteric associations, the 12th house refers to isolation and submission and to the dissolution of the personality.

Those things are basically true even in ancient astrology, although the reason for that has nothing to do with Pisces and Neptune. This is often called the house of karma based on the idea that planets found here in some way denied normal expression and are often operating as unconscious rather than conscious drives. That's also mostly true, but in ancient astrology, again, nothing to do with Pisces and Neptune and more to do with the fact that the 12th house is in aversion to the first house; it's a cadent house; it's declined out of the ascendant by means of primary motion. And that's a kind of complicated picture. We go over these things in my year one program.

At any rate, it is also called the house of self-undoing because isolation, incarceration, helplessness, and bondage are often the lot of the person with a heavily active 12th house, literal or symbolic. And it is his own actions which draw these conditions to him. Whether a long past is considered or not, the inference is certainly present that the ego built through the efforts of the previous 11 houses and signs must eventually be laid on the altar of sacrifice so that the man may become a functioning part of a larger whole, and give him his wisdom and energy for the good of the group.

For the man who refuses to comprehend this, it is the house of hospitals and prisons, for only through the loss of individual power can a man realize that he himself is nothing without a link to the rest of life. So all these associations with the collective are really very interesting. And I would say that actually, in ancient astrology, there's a similar connotation, where you have the 12th house associated with things that carry the native off from their sense of sovereign control and individuality from the ascendant, which was also called the helm of the ship and the planets being pulled out by primary motion into the next house above the horizon are said to be slipping away from the steering wheel of the ship of life, and the loss of control could be the initiation of a mystical or spiritual experience, but it's; nonetheless, it's a painful thing to be taken out of, you know, control of your life, whether through illness or, you know, some kind of limiting or imprisoning period of time which is why the 12th house was associated with Saturn.

This is always a difficult house unless the path of service is pursued Greene says somehow, the release of energy in this way alleviates much of the frustration and loneliness which accompanies 12th House planets and makes the required sacrifice unbearable. Great pain often occurs to the 12th house for the loss of the will after so much careful building is a great blow to the man who has come to identify himself with his personal desires. Yet loss of will is the price which all planets pay when found in this house. Although the finding of real inner serenity is often gained in exchange as the last sign of the watery trigon, Pisces symbolizes the completion and fulfillment of all emotional strivings unity, not with another person, but with life itself.

This is the mystical marriage and is most difficult for the average person-centered in their personality to deal with. There is no battle required, only acquiescence and devotion; it is almost impossible to make any sense of the 12th house from a purely mundane point of view. For even more than the eighth, this is a nonmaterial house and pertains to matters which bring a person into closer touch with subjective reality.

Any planet in the 12th is subject to the dissolving and transmuting influence which blocks the ordinary personal expression of the planet and forces its energies inward and upward. That which occurs here occurs in secret, like the gestation of a child, which is actually it's interesting because the 12th house is associated with labor in ancient astrology.

Only when the term is complete can this facet of the individual unfold like a newborn baby into external expression, and by then, it is changed Saturn into the 12th house and to a lesser extent in Pisces is difficult from the point of view of the personality because the Saturnian energy is geared initially towards self-protection and defense against the environment are rendered ineffectual. This may, in extreme situations, be through hospitalization or imprisonment for a period of time, and the person may learn through his own helplessness how ultimately impotent notice she used the word helpless. And remember, if you remember, I used that word in a talk that I gave on Saturday, and Pisces and I had not read this yet. I mean, I read this like a decade ago, but anyway, how ultimately impotent the personal will is, and I probably didn't pick it up from her originally, let's be real.

The feeling that one is helpless and must submit to something larger and greater is frequent with the placement of Saturn, although it may occur on a very subjective level. This is a Caden house and refers to states of mind. And Saturn here often generates a vague fear that someone or something, a misty or generalized fate or destiny, is going to destroy him or control him. He may isolate himself and attempt to shield himself from contact with others at the same time that he's weighed down by an oppressive loneliness and sense of powerlessness. The sacrifice of one's material ambitions is often concurrent with the 12th House Saturn, and she goes on for some time.

She also goes on to say guilt looms large with the placement of Saturn, although it is generalized rather than specific. It may cause a person to seek solitude or penance or penance through solitude, or there may be religious penance in the literal sense, resulting in the monk or the nun. And it could also be incarceration as a way of receiving some karmic adjustment, for you know, guilt and imprisonment could result in sickness, sickness or withdrawal, etcetera, etcetera.

So, yeah, anyway, that's mostly; there are a couple more pages, but that's mostly what I wanted to read. So, a lot of what she says about Saturn in the 12th house, she's also sort of conflating the 12th house with Pisces, and the reason that I want to draw on that today is that I think the significations that she makes of Saturn and Pisces, and even though it's being conflated with the 12th house, are still really accurate for Saturn in Pisces.

I would attribute it to some different things, right? Like, all those things about Saturn and the 12th house are generally true because Saturn is a lot like the 12th house for ancient astrologers. But some of the reasons that we also have those themes of the collective the sacrificial guilt, empathy, and compassion are due to the fact that this is the feminine watery temple of Jupiter. And there's something about the sign that has always been involved, especially through the feminine watery jupiterian qualities, like a religious sensibility, and when you have Saturn in that watery emotional, sort of religious and mystical sign, you get these themes. Jupiter naturally connects us to to things that are collective. So Jupiter is the planet of unity and represents things like religion, law, courts, all of the different institutions of the world that hold. I'm not going to say it, not gonna say that hold our cities together, That's Jupiter.

So Jupiter holds things together; now it's going to be like this weird game where I'm like, it's trying to tag me, it's trying to make me say the word. I'm not gonna say it. So, Jupiter in Pisces, though as a Jupiter-ruled sign, you have this melding of emotions, collective emotional identifications, and all of the different institutions of the world that hold, oh my god, I'm gonna go that hold society together. Society. Oh my god. Okay, anyway. So, getting back on track.

There are three reasons that Saturn in Pisces given the meanings that we find both in the sign of Pisces and through Saturn and through some of Saturn's identification with the 12th house. There are three reasons that Saturn in Pisces tends to hate the light. And this is not like, you know, lots of there. There are many forms of expression that Saturn in Pisces, like Saturn in Pisces, will express itself in a lot of different ways. But you will notice that there are there is a distinct pattern of Saturn in Pisces hating the light. What do we mean by that?

Well, number one is that Saturn in Pisces will often fill us with the sense that we shouldn't be an individual and that we should be concerned with collective things. Insofar as people are not identifying themselves with groups with emotional concerns that extend the individual into collectives, there will be a sense that you should not be an individual that you know, you should not stand out, and your concern should be for a collective. And so it's very common for Saturn and Pisces to come up in our experience as people or forces around us that make us feel like standing out and being an individual that doesn't identify in a particularly strong way with emotional allegiance to various groups or collective concerns or efforts or causes or missions or purposes or religions. That kind of individual is not the right kind of individual. And so you will find that there's a kind of antagonism that Saturn in Pisces has for things that stand out or refuse to be identified with a collective.

So that sense of individuality can feel like it's an affront, you know, and you will see that Saturn in Pisces will sometimes direct, you know, it's like an antagonism that's directed at things that stand out as individual and apart. I resent you. For example, if you're in a relationship with someone Saturn in Pisces, they have a strong Saturn in Pisces, maybe it's configured somehow to their seventh house; you will often find that if that person is not more emotionally enmeshed and identified, that there will be resentment.

Let's say, for example, that yeah, let's say you're in probably everyone's had at least one relationship like this, where you're in a relationship with someone, and if you're happy and vibrant and doing your own thing, it's like the other person, maybe it's a family member, or maybe it's your spouse or a friend will immediately be irritated or annoyed with you, or even try to make you feel bad. And you're like, what, what did I do? And immediately, then you're hooked into emotionally; it's a way of hooking you back into a dependent and emotionally complicated dynamic.

Well, you stand apart; I resent that. I resent that because I'm identified with the relationship and if you're not identified with the relationship, and you're sort of standing alone and apart, then I have to try to hook you back in somehow. And Saturn in Pisces can do that to us as a kind of archetypal force that's present. You have to be aware of the fact that if you stand apart, it's like there's a grumpy person in the room who's like, well, I don't like that you're standing apart. I thought it was a we, but you're acting like a me. So I'm going to try to hook you right back in; you have to be careful of that with Saturn and Pisces. You shouldn't be an individual Saturn in Pisces may resent that, so to speak.

Number two is that you should have to sacrifice. You shouldn't have things that make you happy. You should have to sacrifice things that make you happy for the good of something greater than yourself. And you know, it's weird how people can have that as a system on board even though they are nowhere near saintly or religious. Like I, so many people are like, Oh, I'm not religious, I abandoned the Catholicism of my youth or you know, very proudly like, and I hear this all the time, you know, in my client practice students and so forth. And there are people who, you know, who really mean it and have like, really like deprogrammed themselves from some religious upbringing or whatever, then there are people who say that they have, but still carry the operating program, you know, and it's subtle, and it's like, I think I still do on certain levels.

So there's nothing wrong with religion, either. But this is, for example, you know, oh, wait, you're happy, and you have things that make you happy? Well, you know, there's something suspicious about that. It's like, you know, my grandmother, who was strong, Christian and just had the kind of Christian guilt thing going on, would be like this, oh, you're, you're happy, and you're, you have things well, that, you know, you should have to sacrifice something, you should have to give something up because there's something suspicious about being in possession of anything that makes you strong and happy, and confident. The good thing to do is to have to sacrifice that.

So when people have things, in general, the tendency to resent and feel like the virtuous thing to do would be to sacrifice anything that you have, that makes you happy. This is a Saturn in Pisces, a potential for Saturn in Pisces; you have to sort of watch out for sometimes sacrifice is necessary.

Sometimes, it's a good thing. But there's also a way in which envy and resentment can cause us to direct at people this kind of, like a religious sentiment, you know, it's not coming from a good place, though. And how many people, I literally see this all the time, where it's like, there's just a suspicion of people that are in possession, whether it's something material or something emotional if you're in possession of something that looks nice or feels good, that immediately you would suspect that they're, up to something, you know, and they should have to sacrifice that weird kind of a weird attitude to take it, you know, and direct at people. Interestingly, again, like I think a lot of people have this program on board. And yet, they would call that they would say that they're not necessarily religious, but that's like the residue of oftentimes, like some pretty deep complexes that I think in some ways probably come from Christianity, and that's a very Saturn and Pisces, kind of thing.

Number three would be confidence equals cockiness. There's a weird way in which Saturn in Pisces will look at a person who's confident and be like, well, confidence equals cockiness, like, there's no difference, there's no ability to differentiate between the two. I also remember being around my grandmother, who I loved her, you know, God bless her and everything. But one of the things that really drove me nuts was that anytime that I was just like happy and confident, you know, I'm not talking about like, my, I don't know, my cocky, 16-year-old self or something. I'm just talking about, like, as an adult man, even when I was there, like with my kids, if I displayed any kind of just confident, joyful kind of, just propped up and feeling strong and healthy, you know, in my psyche, that there would immediately be this suspicion.

I think my grandmother carried a lot of the Catholicism that she was raised with personally, but that's just me. This immediate sense that that's, that's cocky, you shouldn't be that happy and feel like, you know, like that. That's cocky. And I remember a number of times talking to my wife and, you know, some people in my family and stuff and being like, you see what's interesting how grandma seems to think that anyone who's just like strong and happy is automatically cocky or arrogant or something.

It's like there's a huge difference, actually, between being just happy and confident. And being cocky, Saturn in Pisces sometimes just throws everything into one bucket. If it looks happy and individualistic, well, it should be sacrificed for the collective. If it has something that looks nice, well, you shouldn't possess things; you should be sacrificial. Oh, if it's confident, well, confidence equals cockiness, like like that. And then there's this other sense that, like, guilt is fundamentally more trustworthy, feeling bad, feeling complicated, feeling implicated, feeling responsible, you know, and for other people or for, you know, things outside of yourself, that's somehow that all of that is more trustworthy.

Now, it is true that any of these things could be a virtue. Sacrificing something of your individual self for a larger collective is a virtue, and Saturn in Pisces could teach us that. You know, what we have is as good as what we're willing to give away to others in some spirit of generosity, compassion, and charity, and that, you know, humility and a sense of culpability is better than being cocksure. These are beautiful lessons that Saturn in Pisces can deliver. It can also get hung up on these things and attack anything that just appears as light apart, separate, strong in, in possession of something beautiful. And it can want to swipe at those things. So you have to be a, you know, just aware of that.

Now, there are three reasons that Saturn and Pisces also hate weakness, and this is just so different. On the one hand, you have this sort of resentment of things that are light, bright, and strong apart individual, but then you also have the potential for hating on things that appear very weak, vulnerable, sick, and needy. So it's an interesting dichotomy.

Number one, there's a way in which collective compassion, and you just basically just inverting these three things, right? Collective compassion threatens the individual. So you will find that when Saturn is in Pisces, the very legitimate need to care for our neighbors to care for things that are bigger than ourselves. Because that threatens something of individual sovereignty, you will also find people that are immediately like, well, you're all just a bunch of victims. Get out of your own way. And all you want to do is drag everyone down with you're a cesspool of negativity and victim consciousness, and the frustration and angst and almost like, almost like hatred of, of the victims and the suffering, that those who are suffering and greater collective realities of suffering, that people who are whose individuality feels threatened through the lens of Saturn and Pisces can also start to hate on things that appear, quote, unquote, weak.

Number two is that sacrifice also threatens the individual. So when there is the implied need for a sacrifice, what are you trying to, you know, you're gonna take something of mine, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna try to take something from me, well, you know, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, you're just a needy, you know, you're just a needy mess, same thing. So it's just you're inverting the same things. And you can get the exact same planet showing up as hatred of the downcast, the downtrodden, the outcast, and the marginalized, and an amplification of the dislike of those groups, which is why we also see Saturn in Pisces as sometimes the indication of the intensification, you can see the growing dislike of different between different factions or groups, usually that have strong, there were there are very strong emotional investments in one group or another.

A lot of it comes down to what groups support and reify our sense of individuality versus which threaten them, which groups or collectives threaten our sense of individuality. And, yeah, so we have, like, the Rwandan genocide in the 90s, for example, is a very dark chapter in history that, you know, that Saturn in Pisces is running right through the middle of.

Number three, collective guilt requires service anytime that we step into the larger reality of suffering, the failure and of weakness and of impotence, on behalf of on the part of humanity that in any serious look at those things will dwell in the heart and inspire us to act on behalf of something bigger than ourselves. So really, collective guilt as a complex that says you should never be happy because you're always guilty; that's problematic, but the kind that says, I exist apart from the world; I have nothing to do with it. That's not going to do either. And if we're not able to recognize our collective our, our culpability, and our participation in the problems of the world, and therefore the call or need to serve, to sacrifice, that, you know, if we, if we're averse to that, if that, that we will feel threatened by it, and then we will tend to hate on anything that forces us to look at our place or our role in collective suffering.

So then we say, Oh, I get that away from me. And that tends to appear in terms of; I have a hatred towards things that are, are weak, or are suffering. So it's an interesting dichotomy, how Saturn and Pisces can amplify the, you know, the hatred of weakness, as well as hatred of you, could say individuality, but I'd also say like individual, light, and apartness.

Okay, that's what I've got for today. I hope that this was an interesting exercise just to work with those things. And hopefully, this prepares us for some of the different tensions that come up within us over the next couple of years. Well, I'd love to hear your comments in the comment section today. And, as always, if you have a story to share, use the hashtag grabbed or email us your story at grabbed@nightlightastrology.com. Alright, that's it for now. We'll see you again tomorrow. Bye.