A Deeper Look at the Venus-Saturn Square – Part Two

Hey, everyone, this is Adam Elenbaas from Nightlight Astrology, and today we are going to take another look at the contact between Venus and Saturn that is happening this week. Venus is in the sign of Gemini, making a square to Saturn in Pisces. I have been rereading a lot of my Liz Greene library for the first time in many years.

Liz Greene is a famous archetypal and psychological astrologer, one of the greatest of the modern era. She wrote a ton of books, and most of those books were the books that I kind of cut my teeth on as an astrologer. I've been revisiting a lot of them lately. What I want to do today is take a look at a passage that she wrote; I think it's a very beautiful vivid passage on Venus-Saturn combinations; it actually comes from her book, Saturn: A New Look at an Old Devil, which I've read some other passages from somewhat recently as Saturn has gone into Pisces.

So as a way of kind of looking at that. Looking at the recent ingress of Saturn into Pisces, I visited another one of her passages. Somewhat recently, we've looked at some of the passages that she wrote on the Myths of the Zodiac from the astrology of fate. Here we go, zoom. And so that's what we're gonna do today. As we go along through this passage, I'm going to pause and offer some commentary and reflections, observations from my practice and work with clients and students over the years, and sort of riff off from what she has to say. I like exposing you guys to really good authors and really good passages for your reference and for places of further investigation from time to time. So I hope you guys will enjoy this today.

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Okay, well, let's get into it today by looking at the real-time clock. And taking a look at the transit once more. We opened up earlier this week looking at Venus and Saturn contacts, and here, we can see the two coming together in a square. This really takes place Friday, April 14. That's today into the weekend, and it's been building over the course of the week. So we'll see this separating by tomorrow, give it maybe till Monday before it really starts to be, you know, it's sort of fading by that point. So that's the transit.

Now again, I want to read you guys something from this book, Saturn, a new look at an old devil by Liz Greene. She has written many books, and so I've been highlighting different passages from them as I've been rereading them. I loved this passage when I was doing some research, and I just thought, you know, rather than just cherry-picking insights from it, I want to read through the passage, just a couple of pages, and pause along the way and just offer you my reflections. I had a lot to say about this as I was reading it. So anyway, here's what she says about Saturn in aspect to Venus, which is what we're dealing with this week.

Saturnian contacts to Venus, when they occur in the charts of those who are not predisposed toward introspection or self-understanding, are some of the most painful contacts to deal with. And the reason for that is that Venus Saturn contacts will often do really well, for example, in the charts of artists, say, poets and writers who don't mind spending long periods of solitude, crafting beautiful things, or a metalsmith that likes to be in their shop or an artist that can spend long periods of time alone painting in their studio. If you have an inclination toward that kind of lifestyle, Venus-Saturn, it doesn't ever seem as bad, or it seems to show up kind of nicely in the charts of people who have both solitary contemplative and artistic qualities, which is something that most of the time, we just think of Saturn and Venus in relation to say pain and love or something like that. But if you're not the kind of person who can deal with that, then as Greene says, it tends to be a very painful contact insofar as it, you know, if you don't like being alone, if you're not the artistic type that likes some solitude, a lot of the times it's more painful socially to have to deal with, like say loneliness.

In both men's and women's charts, one of the traditional interpretations, which seems to be accurate enough, is that a failure or sorrow in marriage and in love with the subsequent residue of disillusionment, bitterness, fear, and a great sensitivity to rejection, which colors all successive romantic encounters with a certain aloofness and mistrust. It is probably that the initial failure, and there's generally one very painful one, is not the only key to the patterns of behavior, which are so typical of Venus Saturn, but that an additional and more important key may be found in childhood in the individual's relationship to his parents, and particularly to the parent of the opposite sex.

This is not a new concept, but it has been suggested before in reference to Venus-Saturn configurations. Saturn's association with the parents brings this element into all Saturnian contacts with the personal planets.

Now, she's getting pretty deep into the weeds there with regard to the psychological complexes that we could see coming out of relationships to parents of the opposite sex from the child or stuff like that. But what I want to say is this. Insofar as Venus Saturn contacts are concerned, you will often see withholding parents, parents that withhold love or that are suspicious of joy, spontaneity, or creativity, or sometimes like a mother or father who has maybe some serious sexual repression or other kinds of sexual I don't know complexes or problems. Then unconsciously, the child is like picking up on those in the environment, which is an interesting thing.

Venus seems to have importance in relation to one's capacity to be happy in the conventional sense, to be at peace or in harmony with oneself in the environment. More than any other aspect Venus Saturn appears to strike at a person's happiness and the usual feeling with the aspect, even if it is more dressed, even if its more drastic forms are not expressed, is a nagging discontent and the feeling that one will never be able to be happy or take pleasure in life.

This contact, even the harmonious ones, will also strike at a woman's basic attitude toward her own femininity and her worth as a woman and may affect a man's basic attitude toward women. Now, again, I don't think we need to go down the path of, you know, some of these are maybe a little dated in terms of some gender stereotyping. I still think that the basic piece of this to remember is that Venus in the ancient world was called the planet of good fortune. The fifth house, which was called the House of good fortune, was also called the Joy of Venus. So when you think of good fortune in the ancient world, you're just thinking of anything that's pleasant and enjoyable and pleasing and makes that makes you happy that good vibes, right?

So when you have Venus Saturn contacts in general, you just have the tendency to struggle with good vibes or to, feel like they're inhibited or blocked or to have a hard time with pleasure. I'll never forget one time that there was a client that I saw who had Saturn transiting her natal Venus, and she was going through a period of time where it was actually painful for her to have sexual intercourse.

So a good portion of the session was her asking, like, what's going on? Why is this happening? I've never had this happen before. Will it pass? And I thought it was interesting that at that very time, Saturn was transiting. I think it was an opposition to her natal Venus. So just when it comes to the ease with which we can experience flow, grace, harmony, happiness, and pleasure, Saturn can somehow prohibit or block that.

Which is one of the more painful or difficult things, and it can also color or shape our attitude toward the feminine or toward the Venusian things in life, whether you're a man or a woman, sometimes giving you a less favorable or more judgmental or restrictive or harsh or severe way of looking at Venus stuff. Anyways, she goes on.

In the final balance, the great unhappiness and isolation which often accompany Venus Saturn aspects, there's also a great potential for deep and meaningful, and permanent relationship based on a complete understanding and on free choice rather than mutual need. The mysteries of union are within the grasp of the person with this contact, for although he stands to lose much and usually must spend a good portion of his life without a companion or with true companionship. He also holds the key to a relationship that is lasting and real.

I think that's fascinating because that is so true. One of the things that are often said about Venus Saturn, which I've seen bear out time and time again, is that love often comes later in life; the true love, the deep, meaningful, mature, lasting love, sometimes comes after some painful trials that happened earlier in life. It's as though this is a bottle of wine that's not going to age and reach its peak until you're a little bit older. It is not uncommon at all to see people marrying but not having kids with Venus-Saturn contacts or to have gone through some divorces only to find that perfect match a little bit later in life or something like that.

Sometimes there are painful trials and tribulations that come with a more lasting and substantive Real mature love later. But that's not to say that you couldn't have one earlier in life, either. It's just that it will need to be mature, and often there will be some trials that come with Venus-Saturn contacts before that maturity is reached. However, that happens.

The connection of Venus-Saturn contacts the sexual inhibitions, particularly the varying degrees of sexual defensiveness, which we term frigidity is rarely mentioned since sorrow in love is somehow expected to imply this often sorrowful area of experience as well. But Venus-Saturn contacts cannot be consciously utilized in a constructive way unless an effort is made at honesty with oneself. As with all Saturnian aspects, we must consider the workings of the unconscious with its tendency to hold compensatory or opposite attitudes and feelings in relation to the conscious personality and efforts of the individual.

Regardless of how badly the person with Venus-Saturn wants to express sexually and emotionally, there is usually an equally intense, unconscious fear, which makes defense necessary at all costs. It's funny how many times I've met with younger people, like, let's say most of my client practice and audiences are actually women; as you guys know, many of the younger women, let's say in their 20s, or early 30s, or something that I've met with who have Venus Saturn contacts will often have really like, either very high expectations and almost a rigid idea of what should constitute love.

Sometimes that needs to be softened with Venus-Saturn, or there will be an unusual sense that, like everyone I've met, is immature, like almost like, is that real? Or is that Venus-Saturn speaking where there's this expectation that a level of maturity be there, again, maybe that can't be there until you're 40? And it's unrealistic to expect that lovers and the state of love will be something other than at least slightly youthful until you're a little bit older.

So sometimes there are also these kinds of unrealistic expectations and rigidity or frigidity that has to be overcome internally before it can be taken out. Or the projections can be pulled back. Sometimes. In other words, we project onto other people; no one's ready for me, and nothing's good enough. But then, when we realize that actually I'm a little rigid inside or I'm a little cold or something like that. We work on that, and then suddenly, we're more allowing and tolerant of the people and situations we find externally around love.

Venus-Saturn combinations imply a certain amount of emotional pain and rejection in early home life. This may be of an obvious kind, such as the home where nobody touches each other or expresses any overt displays of affection or warmth. It may also be of a more subtle kind where much material display is offered, many gifts, and great efforts are made to provide the physical comforts but where there's no real recognition of or love of the child in a straightforward way.

She goes on to talk about that for a while. I think that that's really interesting too, because Venus Saturn, for example, in ancient astrology, is sometimes associated with wealth. For example, Saturn is also exalted in Venus' sign of Libra, and both Venus-Saturn contact will sometimes be associated with like, almost like a classical form of beauty, like think of like the, like the black tie event, or the opera, or the ballet places where there's a sort of classical form and grace and beauty and wealth and opulence all together, but maybe it's a little dry or rigid or stiff somehow, too.

So when Greene is talking about the fact that sometimes you'll see like, like wealth and material opulence, but lack of heart, I don't mean to put a stereotype on that because I've actually had been friends with and known especially when I lived in New York City, people in the world of ballet and theater and art, an opera even who would not fit that stereotype.

So I know that's kind of a bad stereotype, but if you can understand what I mean when I say that classical form and the sense of like wealth and beauty, but a little bit of like tightness, that sometimes the Venus-Saturn kids will, you know, as a child's growing up in that kind of environment. It's setting them up to be in relationships that are maybe not ideal in some way, right?

The intimacy of emotions and the contact from heart to heart is not as easy to find; it takes a little bit more work because it's not the model that is set up. That doesn't mean Venus. Saturn doesn't provide some nice things, right? But that's maybe one of the things that it doesn't provide us naturally that has to be learned. Okay.

We all have encountered those children who, because of their fear of being unwanted, can only express their need for affection through destructive actions or an attempt to inflict pain or sulking and weeping. If we transfer this rather extreme picture to the adult body in the mind of a Venus-Saturn individual and include the skill at portraying surface coolness, which they have usually developed, we will hold the key to this peculiar and often misunderstood emotional nature. Of course, not all people with Venus-Saturn contacts behave in this fashion, but there is a touch of this quality present, although it may be beautifully mastered, outweighed by more self-expressive factors.

So again, like a cool, calm, controlled, poised beautiful, look like I think of like a Rolex commercial or something, I don't even know if there is a Rolex commercial, I can't even think of one, but a commercial for something that is beautiful and expensive, and everything just looks sort of perfect, but also, you go like, is that real? You know, are they like cyborgs? You know that not that can be a little bit like Saturn.

Venus is the archetype of the Terra or the cortisol rather than of the mother. And these two phases Venus and the moon together, symbolizes the female principle on a personal level; being a Saturn contacts usually affects a woman's confidence in herself as a woman, not only by society's definition of womanhood society but by her own definition as well. It is usual to find Venus-Saturn, women in the competitive world of business, and this type of woman often excels in her profession; she may be driven to achievement not only because she has a genuine love of her work responsibility and creative self-expression but also because she may feel that she cannot properly function in a stereotypical feminine capacity.

So I love that there there's another twist on Venus-Saturn. Venus-Saturn is, let's say, the disciplined mature woman who's focused on work and on productivity and performance and becoming masterful at something so it's not just tight, stiff, rigid, cold; it's also someone who's driven, who loves work, who's responsible, who's disciplined, who's high achieving, and so of course that's insofar as we understand Venus-Saturn as a picture of a woman's femininity on a psychological level in a birth chart.

The same thing could be there in charts, have anyone representing their inner feminine, so to speak, so it doesn't have to be literal women. But for these women, it is terribly important to be loved, admired, and thought beautiful. This is hardly liberation; it is closer to an enslavement to fear. Now she's talking about the polar opposite where sometimes you will have, and again, this could go for anyone, not just women, though she's sort of splitting it down male-female lines, but, um, you know, you get the idea that Venus, Saturn could also be I'm a slave to success, I'm a slave to beauty, I'm a slave to having to look like a certain way in order to be thought of as beautiful or worthy. That's definitely true for Venus-Saturn; sometimes, it's all about appearances. Let's go on.

She talks a little bit about the spinster archetype, which is really interesting. I won't go into that so much. For example, I thought it was really interesting my grandmother, on my mom's side, had a strong Venus-Saturn contact in her chart, and her husband died when she was relatively young. So she spent most of, like, I think it was like from her early 60s all the way till 90 she spent mostly alone; she had another partner for a little while, and she was Venus-Saturn person. And a lot of her later life was keeping her gardens and doing all sorts of things that she did that she really loved a lot of, which were very Venusian, and yet she was alone.

So the Venus Saturn can also be like, I want to call it like, the artistic, the artist slash crone archetype, like a lot of wisdom and comfort, keep being comfortable as a sort of solo goddess in the world.

So anyway, we may find Saturn overcompensating on occasion. This kind of pattern is equally frustrating because it's just as isolating; it is common to find a person with Venus-Saturn following a pattern of relationships with a partner is a burden emotionally or mentally or physically, quote-unquote, inferior in one way or another. So that's interesting because I've often seen Venus-Saturn contacts come up when say, you know, someone gets married, and their spouse maybe ends up on disability, and they have to be the breadwinner. So there's like this burden of responsibility gets amplified somehow on, let's say, on the native with Venus-Saturn contact because their partner suffers or struggles in some way, and they end up having to become like the responsible one and carry a heavy load, or there's like a cross to bear in the relationship somehow, that's a really interesting one.

This is an interesting piece; the man with a Venus Saturn contact may not have quite as difficult a time as his female counterpart. But with men, these aspects often are symbolic of a general mistrust of women; there's often the fulfillment of the usual pattern of the safe partner. And a great deal is often made of something which is referred to as duty but which is closer to martyrdom. Sometimes there's a great resentment or hostility toward women with fear behind the resentment. And this kind of man will generally dislike a woman who expresses any degree of intelligence or individuality because he maintains his security by keeping his woman under control, which I have seen too.

Mostly, I will be honest and say that I will see that in the charts of the husbands that women bring into sessions with permission. I always ask my clients if they're gonna bring their husband's chart in that they asked permission. But that shows up quite frequently in the charts of men who have real issues with trying to control women or wanting like a conventional woman who fits into a role that doesn't require that he grow or evolve or develop emotionally or psychologically in a relationship that she just fits a role.

Well then, what do you know when she doesn't want to fit that role or when she's evolving or changing usually, as the relationship ages and grows, then there's this big crisis. Oftentimes it's that exact kind of crisis that, you know, the woman will bring the husband's chart and say that we're having problems in our marriage. What do you see? I'm like, well, look, he's got a Venus-Saturn contact in his chart. So definitely, it's a true stereotype. It's not like all of the charts with men who have been a Saturn are like that. I've seen many men with Venus-Saturn who are like dedicated artists, for example. Not uncommon as well, but that can happen.

So this is one of the aspects which can incline toward the proverbial male chauvinist pig so despised by the Women's Liberation Movement. Ironically, however, this movement in its more extreme forms is populated by women with the same Venus-Saturn contacts. With infinite gentleness and patience, the universe informs us yet again that, like sometimes like attracts like; well, that's a powerful statement. I don't know if we all will agree with that or not. But that is interesting. And I can't. I don't think I can comment on that so much from my client practice, but that's an interesting statement that Greene makes; what do you guys think about that one?

Okay, so, even those for religious reasons, issue relationships must find a suitable psychological substitute. So the nun becomes the Bride of Christ, and the priest offers service to Mother Church. It is in the area of relationship that human beings are the most vulnerable, and consequently, it is here that they can make the greatest steps in growth and self-understanding. So, the path of building a relationship based on love and unfree choice is as valid and difficult a path as the most abstruse of esoteric disciplines.

That's interesting because what she says there at the end I really agree with which is that you can't not run into the bearing the cross of relationships. Even if you're a nun or a monk, there's a way in which you become the bride of God or something like that, or the marriage becomes the infinite or something.

Even if you're someone who doesn't get into relationships, you'll still carry the burden of love and relationships throughout your life, even if you're not the marrying type. So Saturn-Venus contacts are about the crosses we bear in relationships, the way in which they help grow us up and mature us, the way that we harden and rigidify and try to protect or defend ourselves, the way in which we need to open up our hearts and let our soft edges melt away. These are all Venus-Saturn lessons.

I hope that you enjoyed this passage from Liz Greene and some commentary and reflection on it. Again, it comes from her book Saturn: A New Look at an Old Devil, one of my favorite favorites by Liz Greene, but there are so many if you want to look her up on Amazon. Some of the ones that I really like are The Art of Stealing Fire, that's her work on the inner planets and outer planets. The Sun in the Moon. Apollo's Chariot is a really good one about the Sun, and then she's got The Astrology of Fate is one of my favorite ones of all time. Anyways, I've been revisiting these; they've made for some good material to bring in for these videos.

Don't forget before you leave, like and subscribe and share your comments if you have them on Venus-Saturn contacts. You can find transcripts of today's talk on the website. If you go over there, also be sure to check out that need-based tuition and the new classes starting in June. Year two and horary also for currently enrolled students starts in June as well. So I hope to see some of you guys there. And hope you have a great weekend. Take it easy, everyone. Bye.