The Use of the Twelfth-Parts in Astrological Divination with Saffron Dennis

Hey everyone, this is Adam Elenbaas from Nightlight Astrology. Today I'm very pleased to replay for you a talk from one of our recent speaker series. This is a talk with one of our staffers, Saffron Dennis, who has given a really amazing talk on something called the micro Zodiac, or the use of what are called the 12th parts. This is a really cool, ancient divinity technique that astrologers use that will blow your mind. It's really cool, and it was a great talk from one of our staff members and a seasoned veteran in astrology; it came out of our speaker series.

This week, I will be on a family vacation for at least the first part of the week. Still, I am sharing some content from the past with you because I also want to expose people to the speaker series. Over the years, lots of people know the speaker series very well and have attended but we have tons of new people on this channel who may know nothing about it. So, I want to showcase some of the most interesting talks from that series here and there, especially now that I'm still out of town for a few days this week. I want to point you to where you can learn more about that. So I'm going to do that in a second.

Before we get into it today, of course, as always, don't forget to like and subscribe; it really helps the channel grow. You can find transcripts of any of the daily talks on the website nightlight astrology.com, where I want to take you now so that I can show you more about the speaker series. The talk that you're hearing today from Saffron came from one of our speaker series if you go to the events page on nightlight astrology.com. You can see the speaker series is coming up. This final speaker series for the spring of 2024 will happen on Saturday, March 30. It's a free talk on the lot of Fortune by Joli Knott. Last weekend, Dan Waites gave a talk on Pluto, and Aquarius Magna Bosco gave a talk on the outer planetary archetypes.

So, we are really happy and fortunate, thanks to the success of the Kickstarter to host great speakers from both alumni who are very talented and other astrologers from the greater field of astrology to come out and give talks for free. If you click the Register Now link, you will get a link to the webinar for free and the replay link afterward if you can't make it live. So this talk today comes from that series. So I hope you'll enjoy it. It'll be a way of turning more people on to those talks. You can also go to the Live Events tab and click on Uranus in Love, which is April 18. And next on our outer planets in Love Series. And when you register for that same thing, you'll get a link. If you can't attend live, you will get a recording later. Courses page first of year course first-year program in Ancient Astrology for the Modern Mystic begins June 16.

You can visit the first-year course page to learn more about it. Registrations open at the bottom, where you'll see need-based tuition, payment plans, and early bird payments. So, Enroll Now if you'd like. We're going to be promoting that more starting in April. The other thing, of course that you guys have heard me talking about lately is Ashley's herbal apprenticeship program. Ashley is a phenomenal teacher of herbal medicine. You can learn more about her program on the website skyhouse herbs.com. And the Courses tab starts on April 24. And if you hang around after today's content, you'll hear an interview that I did with Ashley about the program. So that is it, and I hope that you will really enjoy this replay from the Nightlight speaker series on the micro Zodiac with Saffron Dennis.

Saffron Dennis
Lovely. All right. Thank you everybody. So tomorrow, we are going to be discussing the 12 parts of Dodeca memoria, whichever you want to call it; I'm at the moment sticking with 12 parts; it's easier. So that's what we're going for today. So, the micro Zodiac is the use of the 12 parts in astrological divination. Obviously, I'm very, very grateful to Adam for allowing me the platform to be here to speak to you. This is very generous on his behalf to let me run riot. So yes, to everybody who is here joining me from school.

Obviously, some of you will have come across me when you've enrolled in the school. So it's nice that you've joined us and that you're here, and I appreciate it; thank you. The agenda for today is just a little bit of history. I'm not going to go into that too much, but it's just so that you've got an idea of where we're coming from. What are the 12 parts? I want to do a small essential dignity recap just so that we can see where the 12 parts fit into the system, how the ancients use the 12 parts, and how we can use the 12 parts in our chart consultations today.

Okay, so I still class myself very much as a baby Hellenistic astrologer. As my bio says, I've only been studying this part of astrology since 2019. So, having access to the books that we have thanks to all the translations that have been done over the last 20 years, and because was he reading them sometimes is quite difficult as well as if any of you who have gone through the ancient texts, that I'm going to present to you what I have currently found myself, and I really hope that you will find a, a love for this subject, and will decide to choose to look into this a little bit further yourselves, there's so much out there. And there's just, in some ways, probably too much out there for one person to be doing.

So I highly recommend, you know, if this topic interests you, then go and have a look yourself and see what you can find and come back to me. Okay, so this is a quote from Firmicus Maternus. This was the first book that I found and read when I first started looking into the Hellenistic texts themselves. And I'd done the courses. And I believe it's mentioned very briefly in Chris Brennan's course, and I came across this quite early on in the text. And I thought, well, this is interesting because if you read what he's saying here now, concerning the 12 parts, I will show briefly in what way you may seek them, for certain people think that they are able to discover the entire substance of the Nativity from these. And they indicate that whatever is concealed in the decree of the chart can be brought forth from the 12 parts. Now, the decree is not a typo. For decree, this is as in divine law.

Now, this is, for me, quite a big statement. And I thought, well, if this is the case, then why don't I know more about it? So, I discussed this with some of my good friends. And we've all, in our own way, had a look through some of the texts that we've had access to to find out more about this. So yeah, that was the beginning of my journey with the 12 parts. Now, originally, I had the Gene Bram translation, and she is not an astrologer; she was a translator, and I think she did the translations in nine in the 1970s. So, the translation wasn't quite as good as it could be if you had an astrologer doing it.

Luckily, Benjamin Dice, as many of you will know, has spent so much time, and he's been such a great asset to us all by translating so many of the ancient texts and making them very clear with his footnotes and his introductions, and we now have a translation by him, which is available and I highly, highly recommend it.

So yes. Okay. As humans studying this divinity craft of astrology, we spend a lot of time looking up and looking at charts, but the ancients were looking up to the heavens to determine where we fit. And we've all been contemplating where we come from. Why are we here? What does astrology have to say to us? Nowadays, with the discovery of the asteroid belts, many people can put a lot of these points into their charts. And sometimes, I mean, if any of you have popped all of the asteroids into your chart, it literally is just a big black blob. However, the ancients had a way of making these charts speak by looking at the symbols in depth through things like the 12th pass. So, as I say, we can spend a lot of time navel-gazing. However, from the depth of the chart, we can also work the opposite way from within to without ourselves, and we witness also what goes on. And that's shown in our chart with our friends, families, friends, the wider world, you know, mundane astrology, all of those things.

So the beauty of the ancient system is that there all of this is already built in as complexities that speak to every tiny part of our lives and those around us. So we just need to zoom in a little and maybe take a wider view in the longer term. These are some of the books that I have on my. I must admit, I haven't read them all cover to cover. Who do you know? I'm sure there are some of you out there that do, but you know, these are the ones that I found and really delved into the parts. Only that I've got the 12 parts in them, I know that there are many more out there that will have more information on them. And again, if you've got them and some information that I'm not going to share with you today, bring it back to me. I'll be really interested to hear what you have to say.

Right, so the 12 parts, I keep calling them 12 parts; we will go back over some of the older names that they were known by. But they are a way to break the great circle of the Zodiac. So if we've got this 360-degree circle, we break it down into smaller sections, we've got 30 degrees for the signs, which we all know. But the 12 parts are a way of actually breaking this down into further smaller parts. So, I just wanted to explain that there are other ways of breaking down that circle that I'm not going to discuss today.

Now, some of you may have heard of the Knights parts, the 13th parts. There's the half Dickens, which is 15 degrees; there's half of a half of the deck and which is five degrees, which is the acquaintance. Also, there's the memorial, which is a single degree. I'm aware of them, but I don't want to share them. If I go into any more of that, then we're going to get lost completely. So, I want to stick to the 12 parts. But I am aware, as I'm sure some of you are, that there are other ways of dividing the chart and the signs into smaller parts.

So, for ease of speaking, as I've said, we're going to keep confusion at bay. And we're going to stick to calling this the 12 parts. But these are some of the other names that you will find in your text when you're reading to describe what we're going to be talking about today. So don't do that. I knew I would fumble on it and dekat Moria. That's why I call it the 12 parts. Eduardo Sharma is how it's known to enjoy Tish, and the Babylonians called them z two. Now, z two is a Shara is a part, which is where we get the 12 parts. It's believed that these came from the Babylonians because this is where we have our first records. But that doesn't mean that it originated there. It's just that's where our records come from. So what are the 12 parts?

Well, they are the first two and a half degrees of weather; they are sorry that two-and-a-half degree divisions of 30 degrees created 12. And I'm going to show you a slide in a minute with a chart so that it's all clear. And hopefully, everybody will understand what I'm saying here. So Francesco Rosberg, unfortunately, this book is not in print anymore, or if it is, it certainly sort of will cost you a fair Penny. But she says that in Greek astrology, the dough Dr. Moria had the function of further modifying the influence of the planet. Its influence is determined not only by its location in a particular sign of the Zodiac but also by its location in the sign of the Daudet memoriam. Further developments in Hellenistic astrology resulted in the subdivisions of the DayQuil signs into additional portions, such as the third's, which is the decades after the Egyptian use, and in this way, the deck has become the 36 deck and his faces. And they then became connected with the 12 parts, which is the Babylonian system.

So, we can see that the Babylonians and the Egyptians already merged the system. And if you think about how we, in our modern day, are constantly finding new things and ways to add stuff into our practice, this was already happening 1000s of years ago, so it's not surprising that we want to do that now, in our modern day, and we share a new, a, we find something to like, today we find something that we find really fascinating, and we go, and we go and speak to our friends and we, we then share, you know this information. So it's not surprising that that was happening back then. So, you know, as I say, just consider that, you know, a few 100 years ago, we didn't have the outer planets, and now, in general, we use the outer planets or certainly note the outer planets, but they were plugged into the system that we have today.

So astrology, for me, is a living entity. It's constantly in flux and flow, which, you know, makes sense. We're all here on the sublunary sphere. So, as practitioners, if we add our own piece of ourselves every time we consult with a client or teach a class, we all pass on the parts of the system that speak to us and work for us. So, okay, right, the next slide I'm going to show you is how the 12 parts work. And if you've got you, if you're on a computer, and you want to take a snapshot of the chart, or if you find some way of actually getting this so that you can refer back to it as we go through the talk, if you haven't got that way of doing it, then you know, obviously, you're gonna get a recording of the talk, and you'll be able to go back over it and hopefully, get it straight in your mind. So we've if we take a sine of 30 degrees. So, in my example here, we've got the sign of Leo, which covers 30 degrees of the Zodiac. The first two and a half degrees from zero to two and a half. Is that what you do?

Right now, I'm going to get to that. I just want to. Okay, sorry. I'm getting. So yeah, before I get to the chart, I just want to explain it so that it's clear when you see it, okay, so then, if you've got 30 degrees of Leo, then the zero to two and a half degrees would be the first wealth part. So it'd be the Leo of Leo. Then, you follow the next two and a half to five degrees, which would be classed as the Virgo of Leo; it's the second 12 part. And it follows in the diagonal order. And then the labor of Leo, and so on and so forth.

So this is the chart. Okay. So I hope that what I'm trying to describe to you is now clear. So we're taking 30 degrees, and we're dividing it into 12. And then what we have here is the whole Zodiac, the whole 12 signs, all within one sign. But you always start with the Master Site Master sign. So, for example, here, if you look at the top, we've got Aries. So the first two and a half degrees would be the areas of areas. If you were in Taurus, you would be in the Taurus of Taurus. And so we move on in zodiacal order. I just want to check with Michelle. Can I just check to see whether everybody is clear that people know what I'm talking about? That's understood.

Saffron Dennis
Brilliant. Okay. So, as I say, keep this chart in mind, and hopefully, as we go through, we'll be able to refer back to that chart. Okay. So the idea of having a micro Zodiac within the 30 degrees is it plays on the idea of fractals, and so I've given you some images here of the way fractals can show up in nature and in art, and we've also got the Mandelbrot set down the bottom there, which is where the idea came from. If you look, if you can find one of these computer-generated ones that is beautiful, you can just meditate on it; it's fabulous. And so, a fractal is a geometrical figure. And within that small part, we can generate something that creates the whole, so we are. Crystal growth is another example. And galaxy formation is based on this idea in theory. And if we consider that if we can place the whole of the Zodiac within this 30 degrees, you know, to me, it brought to mind the idea of cellular memory that each of us had grows from a single cell. Every cell in our body has the DNA structure within a living cell that carries the information that is us, that makes us us, but also connects us back to our ancestry.

So, if you've ever if any of you have done your ancestry.com, or was it 30 In a meal? Oh, yeah. Anyway, you've had your DNA checked, and you've got your family ancestry, and you look to see how many hundreds of people you're actually connected to, then that's what I believe this speaks to, and also the fact that we can create these smaller pieces, but equally, those smaller pieces create the larger Okay, so this is just a little video for you on a DNA structure just to highlight the point of what I was just saying there. So yes, it's, as I say, These videos can get quite meditative if you start looking at them too long. Not very pretty. Okay. Right. So, to explain the 12 parts, I just want to go over briefly the essential dignities. And the way we use this essential dignity within the ancient astrology corpus. So, to understand the 12 parts, we need to begin with understanding the system of rulership.

Now, each of these areas of the chart has a planetary ruler, which gives the planet a chance to gain some kind of dignity in the sign. So we're then looking at the guest-host relationship here. So, dignities can sometimes be given a bad rap in modern astrology as the terms malefic and benefic can sometimes cause a bit of a kickback. But how can you explain subjectively bad things that happen to us humans, such as sickness, loss, death, and separation, without having a symbol to represent these things that happen to us? And as you know, a lot of the time when you see one of your clients, they're coming to you because they would like some explanation or understanding as to why something that's been difficult has happened to them within their lives.

By enabling them to give the full picture and expand the way we speak about the planets as symbols, then hopefully, it will give them a truthful delineation. So, all planets represent a part of the Divine whole, and therefore, all experiences are part of the system. We just did not always appreciate the subtleties when we were in what we would subjectively call a bad experience. So many ancient astrologers looked at this system of the stars to find ways to describe the soul's experience within a human context. So why can we divide the chart into so many smaller and smaller divisions? As I said earlier, humans living a life will encounter many experiences and have many facets of their personality. And these subdivisions will speak to all the events and give meaning and substance to the life lived. But also bearing in mind, and this is something that I found really profound when I started to look into astrology, away from the psychological view and look at it from a Hellenistic ancient astrology view is that we are not necessarily always participating in every part of our chart, but we witness parts of the chart. And it can be it; there's it.

That in itself, I believe, is actually quite freeing and can take away some of the fear that people may have if they've got planets in the 12 signs, the 12th House or the eighth House, and they think, well, you know, my life is doomed you know when I actually think that the way that we look at this system creates some hope and understanding so sorry. gone crazy. Okay. Right, so just to reiterate, Though we are using the traditional rulership system here, Mars is ruling Aries and Scorpio. And as the list is shown here. So, as we start with everything in it, this system is connected to planets. And the signs are important because they show us where to look. So the idea is that the sign will show us who is in charge of the place of the House. So once we find out who's in charge of that House, any planet that then visits that place, that house sign is then beholden to the hospitality of the planet that rules the place. So basically, who holds the key to the pantry? Who's going to feed you? That's really what we're looking at.

Okay. So, if a planet is in its home sign, then let's just say we've got Mars in Aries. I've got Mars in Aries, right Mars in Aries. And Mars goes to the pantry, and it's got all its protein for its bodybuilding. And you know, it's quite pleased with what it's found in the pantry because it's stocked its own pantry. However, if you've got a planet that is in the, for the opposite sign, then they're in exile or detriment. And say Venus goes to the pantry, and she finds all these protein shakes and all of this stuff, and she's where the cake is, you know. And vice versa, you know, so that's what we're looking at. And the thing that I also want to bring to mind here is that I have Mars in Aries. I'm not a bodybuilder; I don't like sports. I'm actually pretty lazy. However, my Mars in Aries is in the fifth House. This is why I want to express again this idea of not necessarily living every single part of the chart, but we're witnessing part of that chart.

So, the fifth House is of children; my son is a combat medic in the Army and speaks very clearly of exactly what Mars in Aries does. But it's not me that's doing it, but it is my son. So, you know, think about it that way. Exaltation and fall. So if you have a planet, that's an exhortation; it's raised up. Hi. I like to think I was giving consideration to this earlier, and I was thinking of Downton Abbey. So we have we have Libra, and Saturn comes to stay. And you have I was thinking, thinking of Maggie Smith coming in banging her walking stick on the floor, and everybody runs around for she's, she's looked after because, at the end of the day, the House was probably hers originally anyway, you know, so she's given all of this, this special attention. But if you go to the place where planets are in their fall, then that's very difficult for that planet to actually get that from it. So I have Mars in Aries and Venus in Virgo, and yet it's not the greatest place for Venus to be. Okay, so just remember that, obviously, we're talking about planets that are relying on their host.

Saffron Dennis
So, in the case of Venus in Virgo, Venus is relying on mercury to provide her with food. Mercury is too busy thinking and looking to write and do all of those things, the intellectual stuff, whereas Venus just wants to make nice central connections. So, it gives these dualities. Okay. If a planet is in its own triplicity, then it's believed to be that it's, you're in your element, you've got some connection to a way of being that feels natural and the triplicity is because they're elemental, it brings into the system a a try. And so we have to bear in mind that this connects to sect, so hopefully, everybody understands sect and understands that we have triplicity rulers for the day and triplicity rulers for the night. Then, we have the participating planets that go with those. So I hope that's all clear.

Then, the next division of the sign, so bear in mind that all of these things that we're talking about now are dividing the sign into smaller and smaller parts. So the term or the or the bound, it's not been discovered, I don't believe, and if I'm wrong, then, you know, please come and tell me, but I believe that it's not completely clear where the idea of the bounds came from. But if we have the Egyptian or Cowden bounds that we use in our system, Ptolemy did actually create his own version, but I don't suggest using nodes if you do; that's fine, but it's not the way I do it. It is believed that the number of degrees that each of the planets ruled within the whole 360 grid was 60 degrees due to their greater planetary period.

So, yes, the bounds I find interesting. I actually asked Adam this in class A couple of years ago, and it was like, why do the luminaries not hold a term or a bound themselves? I gave it consideration, thinking, well, the luminaries are beyond being held by the planets in the lower planets because they are light and because their terms or bounds is a very Saturnian way of feeling about things as well, so being bound or tied down to something can sometimes be a little bit harder for to deal with and I just don't believe that the like can be held that that way, but that's just me musing things. The decades have become really quite popular, and we certainly here at Nightlight Astrology have had a few talks on the decades, I believe, spend some show it's been with us twice and discuss this with us.

However, the decades seem to be inherited from Egyptian tradition, whether astrology was 36 divisions of 10, making 10 degrees for ten days. They were ruled by various gods and goddesses, and it was said that the Godhra had a fallout with some of the minor Gods because they were trying to serve him; it was a bit of a ruckus, and he brought them under control by grabbing them by their hair. And they are sometimes known as the tussled ones. So, to keep them all under control, he very nicely chopped them into 36 and threw them into the sky.

So, they were still ruling a part of the sky. But they couldn't put themselves back together to come back and cause him trouble. I am so sorry about this. As I said, Austin Coppock has certainly done a lot of work. If you have four to six faces on your bookshelf, then Lucky you. He keeps saying he's going to bring it out again, and I'm looking forward to when it does, but we haven't seen it so far. But T Susan Chang actually has written a book called 36 Secrets, so that's one that's worth looking at if you want to find some more on that.

Saffron Dennis
Alright, so that's the essential dignities for everybody. Is everybody happy with that? I Michelle, is there anything I need to answer?

Saffron Dennis
All right. Okay, so let's just do a quick recap of what the 12 parts are. So, just a reminder that we've got two and a half degrees of a sign within the 30 that creates this micro Zodiac, and that happens within each of the 12 signs. This creates 144 subdivisions in the chart. So yes, right. Okay. So yes, two and a half degrees is the master sign, and then we move On to insert Michael's order. Right. So, bearing in mind what we've just discussed on dignities, I wanted to the reason I wanted to go through the dignities to show you how this works here.

So here we have a spooky house that is very relevant for this time of year, and it is coming up to Halloween soon. So in Scorpio, if Mars is in a night chart, and it hits naught to 2.5 degrees of Scorpio, then it's got maximum dignity, actually more than any other planet can in the whole system, which is quite amazing. We just had this last week, I believe. Yeah, so if you consider that Mars rules, the sign, Mars rules, the bound. The triplicity at night rules the Deccan and also rules that two and a half degrees of the 12th part. Also, if you're using memoria, the first degree would be superduper strong. So, you know, just that, in itself, shows you how, when we look at a planet, we all discuss a planet moves into a new sign. And we're like, Well, you know, certainly if it is a planet that's going into its own, in some dignity in some way. And we're like, well, we can really feel this. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I've got Saturn opposite the Moon.

As soon as Saturn went into Pisces this year, I'd say, whoa, okay, I feel that one, you know, then yeah, I was one of those few people who actually really liked sign in Aquarius, but that's another story. So I think this also speaks to the anaretic degree and why when a planet gets to the end of the sign, we feel that the power is waning from the planet as it's moving out, certainly, if it holds no dignity there. So yeah, just give that some thought. And, you know why? Why is it? You know, because for many years, I used to think, Well, why is it that that's the case, you know, these two and a half degrees each end of the sign, and this seems to speak to that if you consider that in, and I when I say gender, I'm talking astrological speak.

So we've, at the beginning and the end of the sign, you've got the opposite gender; you've got an incompatible element. The planets got the farthest to go, yeah, whole sign to get back to where it goes, you know, there's a whole idea of, of distance. And, again, you know, thinking, you know, what a planet say Mars as it's certainly coming out of Libra for Mars, and then going into these first two and a half degrees. I don't know if any of you have got, you know, this going on in some way, whether it'd be your ascendant ruler or whatever.

My husband's got his Ascendant here, and last Saturday, while I was away, he whacked his leg. He's got Moon in Aquarius; he whacked his leg on the front shinbone and really did some quiet. It was serious damage. So thanks, Mars, you know? Anyway. So, I like to think that Mars is going to say that we use this example. Just give me a second. So Mars moving out of Libra, you know, really pleased to be back home, consider Mars walking through that front door. You're going to know Mars is there, lots of noise, you gotta be very pleased to be back home. But when he gets to the end of the sign, then he knows that.

That's it. He's lost that amount of dignity, and he's going off, and he's going to be held for the next time into Sagittarius. He then has to play to the rules of Jupiter because he's going into Jupiter's sign. So it's a bit like leaving you've had your holiday and your 29 degrees Scorpio Mars. So we've got Mars out. He stood at his front door and was still at home, but he was leaving to go to work and was not particularly happy about it. So that's how I feel this strength and weakness plays out within the science. Okay, All right, so I'm gonna start with Dorotheus. And I'm gonna move through the timeline of what I found with what I've been looking into. So Dorotheus talks a lot about the Moon and the use of the 12 parts with the Moon and the medical astrology.

So anyway, I'll read this to you. So Dorotheus says to discuss the use of the 12 parts in identifying the gender of the native, especially when looking at the Moon, the Ascendant, and the sun in the natal medical horary, and in timing techniques, so he's, he's using this to this and see, we're talking ancient times now, it was important for them to know whether or not you were having a boy or a girl or in some places. And, you know, I don't want to discuss that too far.

We know it's not great, but that was what they did. And the ancients also studied the chart to determine the likelihood of the child surviving, and again, you know, we, in those times, it was important to know, for the astrologer whether or not they needed to spend a couple of days actually drawing all this chart up and getting all this information. And, you know, obviously, parents will probably like to know whether or not the child's going to survive too. So, you know, in both cases, the third day after the birth was investigated by progressing the Moon, and therefore, the Moon in difficult places at these times could signify ill health or even death for the child. So Dorothea says, and if you found the portions of the 12 parts of the Moon, to be with the fortunes, or they look at them, then let this be a mark of the badness of the condition of the native.

So, as I say, he's looking at the Moon here. And in a kombucha chart, which is a chart used by medical astrologers, I'm not one, but this is a chart that would be taken when a client was taken to their bed. They were so ill that they had to be put to bed to be cared for. So, for one who wants to know the condition of the illness at the time he becomes ill and what it will result in, you should look at the Ascendant, the Moon, and the Lord of the Ascendant, the Lord of the House of the Moon, and the connection of the Moon with the star, whichever one it is, and the 12th part of the Moon. So, as we can see, for Dorotheus, the 12th part of the Moon was considered in all of these cases because, as well as being the body and health of the native, it's also the planet's fate. As the lot of Fortune is the lot of the Moon, we are also asked to look at the 12 parts that it falls into. So remember that obviously, the lots are all mathematical points, and can only be determined if the Ascendant of the chart is accurate. So just bear that in mind when you're looking at the lot of Fortune and the Moon, for that matter.

Saffron Dennis
Okay, now I have to thank my friend, Peter Young, for helping me out here because I had a translation of Manila, so it was very literal. Manila says work is a poem. And poetry and I are not the best of friends. So Peter helped me here by talking me through his version, which is a lot better plain, plain English. So I'll read this to you. Because this is this, for me, it was actually really poignant. So Manila says that the great builder of Heaven bestowed these divisions upon the equal number of shining signs that the constellations may be associated in the system of giving and receiving, that have a mind everywhere display a likeness to itself, and the all the signs might have place in each other.

Thus, this interchange with harmony prevailed through the Zodiac, and its sign would protect one another in a common interest. Men born on Earth are created under this law. And so, although their nativities occur in the same signs, they exhibit different traits and conflicting desires, and off does nature stray from good to bad, and the birth of a female follows that of a male. The genitals differ in a single constellation because the individual signs vary on account of the distribution of their divisions and modulate their respective powers in the Daudet to Morris.

And for me, so this here, and also if you have a look at Benjamin Dice's site, he has a talk himself on thought interpretation, which is a big part of what I wanted to speak to you about today. And he says, And this speaks to, for me, the idea of being able to connect to another part of your chart, or a chart that you're looking at, via the 12 paths, because you've got access to that other sign if a planet or a platter or over the Ascendant is in that 12 part. So for me, this is, I'm going to tell you a little story; I'd really hoped I would ask for permission from the people who own the copyright on this show. But I'm going to ask you all to do this little bit of homework; I'm going to ask you to go and have a look and show you how old I am.

So, in the 1970s, here in the UK, there was a children's show called Jamie in the Magic Torch. And Jamie had a torch that I think a lot of you may remember that was a kaleidoscope thing, and you would turn it, and you're trying it on the wall, and it would give you all the different fractals and different patterns on the wall. And but in the show, Jamie's got this torch, he shines it down onto the floor, he never leaves home, shines it down onto the floor, and goes down a spiral, to a place called cuckoo land where all these crazy characters are, it was the 70s, there's a lot of crazy kid shows back then. The first day, really, just to get a feel for it, is to have a look at the first credits. It's fabulous. He takes his dog down there, and the dog can talk and do all of that business. And then, when his adventures are finished, he goes back up the spiral, and he's back home. So, at no point does Jamie ever leave his House. But he can travel into another area with this use of his torch. That's completely crazy cuckoo land.

Now, Peter also pointed out to me, and he's absolutely right that if if Jamie can go to cuckoo land, then Jamie is also bringing cuckoo land back. And so the energy of the sign that you, your planet, has access to also the energy can be brought back to that place too. So if you've got your 12 part of your Ascendant and you look at the sign that that's connected to, and it's not the master sign, then have a look and see where in your chart that 12 is and what sign and House does that lead you to? And does that give you access to something that you may not know that you already had access to? And this is what made it really exciting for me; I'm thinking, well, you know, this is really, you know, really quite deep and very interesting.

So you can look at other, you know, the Narnia stories, Alice Through the Looking Glass more than and Wonderland because we'll see in the looking glass, she's still in a bedroom. So just consider anywhere where you're in a house, and you have access to somewhere completely different. So that's where I'm going with that. So yeah, Jamie and the magic torch enjoy. You can thank me later. Alright, so as I gave you the little bit of information at the beginning of the session with what Maternus had to say about this being such an important part of the information, I'm just getting so that at the end of every planet, Maternus discusses the planet gives you all the attributions that you would want to know delineations of the planet, what do they mean, what do they do? At the end of every section of each planet, he says, look at the 12 parts of the planet; where is it? What sign is it in what House? Is it in what, you know, dignities aspects of all of that business, and then right at the end, what is the 12th part? So as he says here at the bottom, but doing quite diligently into the 12 parts of the Moon, and the bounds in which the 12 part is for whatever is concealed in the Nativity by the general composition of the starts, the 12 parts and their bounds make public and demonstrate all of it.

Now, my good friend Joli actually mentioned to me the other day that, and I'm not certain, so if you guys know, come and tell me, but is he saying the 12 parts and then the bound of the 12 parts, or is he talking about the 12 par and the bound within the radix chart? So, if any of you know for a long time, come and tell me. I just want to quickly read a very, very short piece from what Benjamin Dyck says in his introduction to the text. And says here Firmicus especially notes that we should observe the 12th part of the Moon. So that, again, points to the centrality of the Moon in his approach. So the Moon again, as I was saying earlier, is being fought to. Yeah, yes.

Saffron Dennis
Eben Shah, in the eighth century, discusses the use of the 12 parts with solar returns and perfection. So again, we've got another way of using this information. And he says, in the houses, write down the planets of the revolution of the year with their condition in rising and falling and retrogradation. And the rest of what goes along with that, and their arrays and the 12 parts, and the 12 parts of the degrees of the houses. So we're talking, as I say, about solar return charts, and he's using the 12 parts there to give depth to his readings if you consider that in your certainly now when we use the outer planets if you want to use it in this way. The outer planets will move very few degrees through someone's, you know, through the solar return or perfection, or you know, whatever it is that you're doing, and the secondary progressions, whatever you but your access to those 12 parts is actually going to be quite longer if you're looking at some or, you know, Neptune or all those things.

So, it might be worth looking at that when you're giving someone a consultation and just saying, right, okay, so this, this 12 part here is going to be really important for you this year, you know, with your solar return. So that's another another way to think about it. And the book that I based a lot of this talk on is from Benjamin Dyk. So this is the book. And I hope everybody can see it. And it's called The Search of the Heart. And it's a compendium of permanent Carinthia made a compendium of strategies passed. And, this book has a list in it that you're all going to love, and you're all going to want to go and buy this book once you've finished we finished because even though in her feisty, and which is the majority of what Herman is translating, there are other bits and pieces in there. So, Herman mainly translated APA telematics here. But in this version, it's just a long list because it was in prose form. But Benjamin DICE has very kindly put us in a nice little grid at the back and tells you what each of the 12 parts means. It's very useful. I like it a lot.

And the idea for her feisty in whom Herman was translating was, what is it that the client is coming? To see us? What is it that they're actually thinking about? So we can consider, again, what he says is called the book, The Search of the Heart, what's in the heart of the client that they may not necessarily be telling you as the astrologer. I mean, certainly, if someone comes to you, with their, for the first time, they're not always wanting to open up. And I'm sure you've had clients come, and they're quite closed down. The idea was that even though you could draw a chart, a consultation chart, and people do, you need to do this; now, you draw a consultation chart just before the client walks in, and it may be very, very soon before the client walks in. But that's why the 12 parts are important here because the 12 parts on the Ascendant will move quite quickly.

So you've got an idea, you know, what is it the clients coming in to talk to me about as opposed to what is it the client tells you that they come in to talk to you about so her feisty and lists all of these 144 divisions of the circle and tells us to look at the Ascendant and determine what that 12 part is telling you as the consulting astrologer that the client is coming to see you about. So again, it's like, whoa, you know, you could bet. Even though it says in his talk on his site, you know, well, you've actually got something that you could maybe say, Oh, I'm really clever, I've got this information about you that you haven't told me yet. And the clients: Oh, brilliant, you know, you're you're an amazing astrologer. Thank you. So, I highly recommend that you look for that book if you're interested in this subject, and you will then be able to read through it and determine what your Ascendant is if you want to play around with it. And it's all a bit of fun as well.

But the list also speaks to the idea of why he's why he split this in; I'll just want to read a little part of it here because it's far clearer. Benjamin Deluxe is far clearer than Saffron Dennis. Sorry, this is a little part here. That actually was translated from Masha Allah. But it's in this book, the search of the heart. So he says, And what, what is stronger? So we're talking about what is the, the, what we tried to significant before we even speak to the client. So the strongest significator out of all of the things he's discussed is other planetary placements and all sorts of things. But the last point he says, What is stronger than all of these is that you should look at the 12 degrees of the degree of the Ascendant upon which sign they fell, which if the Lord of That's that same sign were there, or another planet where there, the intention will be according to the place of that House in the circle. If, however, you did not find a planet in that place, then look to see where the Lord of the House is because the intention will be according to the 12 parts of the Ascendant, from the Ascendant, according to the Lord. Right.

So here's an example I'm gonna give you an example. This has played out for all of the people that have been collected here; use this example. So, this has come from somewhere back in antiquity. So an example of which is that this an example of which is that the Ascendant was the 12th degree of Aries, when I projected two and a half degrees for each sign, beginning from Aries, which was the Ascendant, the number ended in Leo, which from the Ascendant is the domicile of children, in which neither the sun nor another planet was journeying. Therefore, I looked at the sun, whom I found in the seventh from the Ascendant. And I said that the question was about a child who was in the fifth House where there was nothing, who sought a woman who wanted to take her as his wife. And if the sun had been in the sixth, I would have said that he was seeking an infirm child. And so the restaurant with the 12 signs, so I hope that's clear. What he's saying is that you can use that 12 Part to find what House it's referring to and get a description from that place, whether there's something in there or not, because you've got the connection to the 12 part from the Ascendant. Okay, so I hope we have any questions on that, Michelle.

Michelle
Let's see. Please type your questions. Well, it doesn't matter in the chat box or the q&a for now.

Michelle
Everything is cool, okay. Somebody asks, so basically, the 12 parts of the Ascendant are interpreted by the transit.

Saffron Dennis
it's, it's, it's the 12th part of the Ascendant. So, as the Ascendant is transiting through the chart, if you want to look at it that way, yes. So if you're waiting for your client to come in, and you decide you're going to bring up a consultation chart before they sit down with you, then you would have that 12 part for your consultation chart. And then when they sat down with you, this is mainly used. I should have said this: this is mainly used for horror stories and questions. So the idea is that you would then be able to say to your client, right, okay, now you're sitting down, maybe 10 minutes after, obviously, the Ascendant will have moved, and you've got your idea of what you think the client is coming to see for, but then the client will come and tell you something, it might be something completely different. So, got that. Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah,

Michelle
So you're not the only one going by the Ascendant and not other placements, such as the houses, the clearance topics, or anything like that.

That's how, in this case of, feisty and used it. But many others, as I was saying earlier, I was a northeast us that used it really specifically for the Moon. Firmicus Maternus uses it for all of the planets. And as I was saying right at the beginning, I really think you can use this like any other system, you know, anything that you find that works for you. And if you find that you go and look at a chart and you want to put all your planets in one, I can show you, you know, we can do that. Go for it because I do think it works. It definitely, definitely works. So yeah, you know, go for it.

Michelle
Okay. And then are we going to look at some examples, or are you going to exploit? Yeah, I bet. Yeah. Because some people are asking about that. So that's all coming. And then one other question, does it matter what the condition of the planet that rules the sign of the 12 part is in?

Saffron Dennis
Yes, because we go back to dignities. So yeah, absolutely. And that's why I wanted to share that bit about the dignity because you're going to be going, and I have an example very, very shortly, where I will show you how that works. I'm just gonna read you one note. Is that all the questions? Yeah, that's great. Okay, right. I'm gonna read you one more, one more little bit. And then, yeah, then we're on to examples. So this is Ben Dyck saying this about how she was feisty and set up this list. So, the number of the 12 parts indicates the whole sign house as the basis of the thought. And Ben Dykes has added the name of the sign for every reference by comparing the various meanings across signs and houses, one can see that the content of the thought is generally a combination of one, the qualities of the sign itself to its whole sign House position, three, the nature of its domicile or Exalted Lord, and for its original house position relative to and we were talking about the area's example earlier Aries.

Okay, so he actually says that, for example, if the Ascendant at the consultation falls between seven and a half degrees of Capricorn, it falls on the fourth 12 parts, which by definition means that it's the fourth House from Capricorn, which is Aries, of the three thoughts listed in the table. We have flocked animals, which must be due to a flock of animals, sorry, not flock, a flock of animals, which must be due to the fact that Aries is a four-footed sign plus the agricultural meaning of the fourth House. And according to Valens clothing, as an attribution to Mars, so it's let me have a look. Ten degrees of Capricorn, so in this list, 10 degrees of Capricorn are feisty and said to a flock of animals, buildings, or clothing. So you give that.

Saffron Dennis
into the interpretation of where you are going, whatever point you're going from and to. So that's bearing in mind that we're that 12 part is being ruled by even though we're in Capricorn, which is some sign, and then you've got all the other dignities that we discussed earlier, that two and a half degrees are also being ruled by Mars. So we've got a mast Height field, that 12 part. So I hope that helps. And does that explain where we're going?

Michelle
please continue saffron. And we'll get to more questions later, I'm sure when we've seen some examples, okay?

Saffron Dennis
Alright, so how can we use it here in our modern lives and worlds? So, as I discussed just now, thought interpretations certainly as, during, or before a nature reading, pre-consultation as we're discussing, certainly for horary and if you're looking for an item or someone wants a specific answer to a question, this can really give Have you an in-depth bit of detail that you may not get without looking at this, these two and a half degrees, Astro magic.

Now, if you are looking to create something, you know, in your magical realm, then it could be really influential in what you're doing in your work. Monday in astrology speaks for itself, medical astrology, as we've seen with what Dorotheus tells us. Again, election astrology is very similar in the fact that if you elect to do something, and it works out for you, even though you thought you had maybe a middling chart, or vice versa, you know, you thought you had a great chart, but then it didn't work out quite so well then maybe it's because you hadn't given consideration to where you're where the 12 parts are. Chart rectification is something that I just gave consideration to when I looked at a chart that I'll share with you in a little while.

Alright, so here we go. This is why I want to give you this as an exam. So, I was writing this talk back in September. And as you do, your mind comes to a blank, and then you start thinking about other things as I do all the time. I always have more than one thing on my mind and suddenly realized that I hadn't gotten the document vehicle document for my car that I bought from a secondhand car dealer a few months before. My husband had kept saying to me that he needed to get this. This document is really important. Yeah.

So I thought, right, okay, it's getting quite late. I need to make this this cool. phoned up the garbage, and the chap who was he was exactly how you would expect a second-half car dealership. salesman to be said, Oh, yes, yeah, I've been. I'm sure I sent it to you. And I thought, yeah, but when I bought the car, and when I picked the car up, I was the last customer of the day. It was Friday, and he was going on holiday. I thought, okay, so he said, Yep, I definitely sent it to you, but I'll have a look into it for you. So he goes away, and he phones me back. He's like, Oh, well, yes, it looks like it got lost. Okay, and he said, but don't worry, I will get it over to you. And to be fair to him. It was there within three days. But I just thought, okay, let's have a look at the truth about that. Exchange. So this is what I found out. Sorry, this is a little bit dark, but the Ascendant was at 18 degrees of Sagittarius.

Now, I'm already a Sagittarius rising. So that already made me chuckle a little. But if you've got your chart List up, then it will show you that the 18 degrees of Sagittarius is the 12th part of cancer. So we look to who rules cancer. That's the Moon. So the Moon is over in the seventh House in the sign of Gemini. Already, that's amusing because, you know, Gemini and seventh House and all these interconnections, you know, going backward and forwards and all of that business. So that made me giggle when I actually read what IcedTea had said about what these 12 parts meant, so it came up as theft or loss. And what did he tell me? He told me it lost it. But even funnier was that the 12-part of the Moon? He, I've asked you, and he says it's loans and loss, damage, and penalties. So, in both cases, looking at the Ascendant and the ruler of that 12 Park, they were both saying the same thing. They were both saying, as I had been told, that it got lost, so I just thought it was very amusing.

Okay, all right. So, I'm going to give you some chart examples. Now, this is where we can get ourselves into a little bit of a headache, and I want to advise you to try to keep the Radix chart in your mind. I'm going to flip between the red X and the 12-part charm. Okay. Alright, so this is Leon TTin Price, who, if you don't know her, is a fabulous soprano. She's still alive. She is 96 years old now. During her career, she sang every type of opera, which is unusual because most opera singers will stick to a repertoire of what they know or a repertoire of what is comfortable for them to sing.

So we will get people who sing specifically, Puccini inverted because that's how it suits their voice, or Mozart or Strauss, but she could sing everything. And there was a BBC poll done on the greatest opera singers of the 20th century. And she came forth out of out of the mall. Now, her story, as you can imagine, is an American born in Mississippi in 1927. Her her options were not the same as they would have been if she had been of white skin. So how did she get to be the super megastar that she became? And when you look at her chart, there are a lot of things in there that you think could be challenging. And Rosie did have some challenges, as you would expect. But she also had some benefits. And I want to show you how I came across this by using the 12 parts. Okay, right. So, her mum was a midwife. Her dad was a carpenter, and an aunt worked for a very wealthy white family who were actually really helpful. The family that her aunt worked for supported Lewontin all the way through her early career; they made it so that she could go to a good school; she went to University in Ohio, where she met another opera singer called Paul Robeson, who got her a place at Julliard based on obviously, the fact that she was an amazing singer.

But she could also go to school because the family gave her the financial support that she needed. Now, you could say that that comes from all those planets in the second, but then that's her resources. They've got nothing showing up in the eighth House, which would be the esteem of others from rhodopsin. And the financial support that she's given, you know, and when you've got looking at the Saturn in the 11th, you're thinking, well, okay, maybe that wasn't quite so helpful. But anyway, we're going to show you the 1212-part chart. Now, my good friend Joli Knott uses this chart as an individual chart where it can. Show she uses it in a way that the sun wouldn't be able to be in opposition to Mercury because, you know, natively in a natal chart, but in a 12-part chart, you can do this.

But what I want to show you is that I'm going back to the idea of being able to, you know, the dreamy and the magic torch, being able to get yourself a portal from one side to another. So, Leon Tim prices, Moon is in Virgo, and Virgo is ruled by Mercury; I will go back to the natal chart in a minute. Connexus connects her to her own personal second House. So, if you look, we're back again to the natal chart. We look at Mercury Mercury's here. And yes, it's, you know, obviously dignity would say not great; however, it is in there being supported by the domicile ruler of the sign. And also by the planet of the sector in favor of the benefic of the sector in favor, she's got a lot of her own.

Saffron Dennis
Her own talents are obviously something that cannot be overlooked. And so Mercury then connects her to that eighth House of other people's monies and resources. So it gives her support through the 12 part because Mercury rules that sign, but also then if you think that Mercury also rules that Moon in Gemini and the fifth House, so you go to the fifth House, and where do you go? You go to the theater. So we'll see she spent the majority of her lifetime traveling the world and around theatres, but also Saturn is in the 12th part of her Ascendant, and I believe it's going forward. So both Saturn and Mars are in the 12 parts that have her Ascendant so it takes those planets into her Ascendant, giving her the drive and the force that she needs to make herself you know, the superstar that she truly is, you know, the sun being in exile in Aquarius, I know, there's a lot there that speaks, and I'm sure you guys can, you know, have a look at these charts later on and really delve into them. But yes, I just thought that that was a really good example of how you can connect the dots. Okay, this is the chart from V Hanson. And I love being able to find charts of my favorite artists and authors and all of that business.

So that's generally what I'm sharing with you. And so to the hands, and if you don't know her, write the moment as you can see a little folk down there. However, she also wrote some books for adults that were about her witnessing the relationship between her grandmother and her niece while they were living on a small island, one of the Finnish islands. So after her career of the Moomins, and creating all of that stuff, she wrote the summer and winter books, they're called, and they are truly beautiful, as far as I'm concerned, so what we're looking at here, so the sun, if you have a look at the sun in Leo's nicely in domicile, and is sat there in the 11th. So she did have a lot of help from people who supported her work through certainly while she was younger, she also had a lot of illicit affairs, which you can see, you can see there in the, the 12, the seventh house ruler in the 12th with the Mazda, she, she had some illicit affairs too. But the thing that I found really interesting, bearing in mind that we're looking at the 12 paths, is that the sun here at 15 degrees is in the 12th, part of the opposite sign of Aquarius. So if you've got if you've got a planet in the middle degrees of the sign, then you've automatically got this connection to the opposite sign; it will always be in opposition.

So Deliver didn't have children. And obviously, we're looking at Jupiter in the fifth, but she's had she has, you know, benefits from, you know, children or creativity or you know, what, things that 12/5 House stuff, sorry. And that son connects in there into that, that fifth place. And so you could say it would be it would fit in there as an opposition, but it also gives her the, you know, if we think about the sun as your life's purpose and the things that you do that make you shine, then she's writing a story about her. It's not about her; she's witnessing this relationship between her niece and her grandmother. And so the sun connects into that creativity that she has in the subject matter that she writes about; she's actually got quite a lot of short stories where she talks about things that are other and are outside of her.

So yeah, they'll show you the 12-part chart. And she has the Moon in the sixth House in the radix chart. In the 12-part chart that takes the Moon to Capricorn, Capricorn is her fourth House. Now, her relationship with her father was not quite so healthy even though she had huge respect for him. He did give her quite a lot of trouble when it came to her work and what he thought it meant to be an artist, so they argued a lot over what art was, and she ended up having a lot of arguments with her dad about what they shouldn't be doing. So, I think that speaks to the connection between the Moon and the fourth House there as well. Now, you can if you really want to put the two charts together and mush them in like this, though I wouldn't do it this way. But if this is how you want to, then you know, you can do this on astro.com and do the by Will, and if anyone needs any help with that later date, then come to me, and I can show you how to create that chart. Okay. This is the chart of Indira Gandhi, who was, at one point they are for quite a while, the head of state of India. She had a situation later on in her career where there was a massacre of many Sikhs in the Golden Temple that was obviously quite horrific. And in revenge for her being said that she had something to do with that happening, she sought bodyguards who actually assassinated her. So if you look at the Moon being her body in the sixth House, I think that speaks to that really, really strongly. Already, you know, you can see that that's happening.

So, if we look at the 12-part chart, we can see that not only is the Moon connecting to that sixth House, but Mercury and Saturn are also connecting to that sixth House. So she's got a lot of energy going in there. And I, as I was saying earlier, with the, if you're looking at a planet that's moved into a sign in those first couple of degrees, then that's that strength of that sign, and the strength of obviously satins here in the 12 part chart, connecting into a place where it's already got a lot of strength, where the Moon really isn't happy either. And I'm not saying that you know, anybody who's got the Moon or that placement, it's the end of because that's clearly not the case; we don't take things out of context; everything needs to be looked at in a bigger hole. But in Darras's case, this did actually speak really strongly to the circumstances of her of her death. So you can see that very clearly there. Right, okay, on to. Alright, this is my last example. And as I said, you know, I love being able to find my favorite artists and their charts, as I'm sure you all do. Now, as I was saying earlier, regarding rectification charts, is it possible that we could use the 12 parts for people who come to us who are a little bit unsure of when their time of birth? I actually have something to read to you from a nightlight student, which is beautiful. So I asked her if I could have permission. This is from Eileen Sullivan, who is a midwife or doula. And as I say, she's a student and nightlight. So if you're here, Eileen, thank you. And I asked her about the moment of birth and what that was.

Saffron Dennis
how we can determine that exact point. And this is what she told me she said first; for accuracy's sake, traditions do differ, and there are some who set birth time as when the entire body emerges; I think it would be possible to make an argument for either head or full body is right. And sometimes I felt baby intensity present with us as its head emerged. Other times, babies can seem a little stunned and not fully present until some moments after their entire bodies are out. It's all very individual. And with regard to the purely mechanical tightening, be aware that both times are typically noted in the birth records. In other words, both the time when the head fully emerges and when the body fully emerges and is charted.

So, depending on the file, either one can be put on the birth certificate. So why birth both times? ideally, attendance keeps track of the elapsed time from the birth of the head to the emergence of the baby's full body because that's potentially the time of maximum compression on the umbilical cord. The cord lies between the baby's body and the mother's pelvis, and the baby is equally compressed, unable to expand its lungs fully. So, for safety, the elapsed time of potentiality lowered oxygenation is tracked, and an attendant will intervene to resolve the situation if too much time passes. For the last note, while it's probably heresy to admit it, there are times when, even at our hospital birth, nobody gets any of those times down. And sometimes, it's just chaos, and everyone is far too busy with more life-or-death tasks.

Conversely, things are so blessed and beautiful that everyone gets swept away into the liminal space and forgets the mundane world with all its clocks and forms. So whenever anything like that happens, we just have to make our best guess during the after-action review. So hopefully, intuition guardian angels guide and or spirits or Universal Consciousness guide the guesses and their estimates in those cases. But if something really seems off in a chart, we might ask if the birth itself was particularly special in some way, fast, difficult, miraculous, etc. It's possibly possible that somebody did indeed miss getting the exact time.

So, looking at rectification charts and bearing in mind that an ascendant like this one here of Christine Hirsch, if she had been born and her time had been noted less than two minutes later, she would have been a Scorpio rising person. Now, if anyone knows that she's the lead singer of the band, the three news items are that I actually went and saw her a couple of weeks ago, which was amazing because she is amazing. But if you read any of the BIOS about her, she's classed as a folk singer and a rock singer there, and she's got many different facets to her. She is very much out of the music business and doesn't like the music business tools. So you could look at the MAS in full there and say, Well, yeah, that speaks to that very possibly. But she had a head injury, she got knocked off of a bike when she was 16. And it created this situation where she's got synesthesia, so she can see music in color. And she has this, she has complex PTSD, she has had all sorts of things that she's had to deal with in her life. But when she sings, she goes into this mode.

And you can see in this picture that she's staring; she's got bright blue eyes, really, really staring. And if you read descriptions of Scorpio as a character, then I think that speaks to her. Now, you know, we can look at anybody's chart and say, Well, yeah, we can fit that to suit, you know, us. But I just thought it was interesting to bring this chart up just to show that it's possible that we could use that, in our, in our consultations with our clients, if we feel that we're on if we've got a situation like this, where we can maybe give them a little bit more insight. So, just very quickly, this is her 12-part chart. So, as I say, I don't use the degrees and the aspect version of this; you can if that's how you want to do it. I'm using it really for the Ascendant. And for looking at where certainly the Moon is because the Moon moves so quickly. So if you've got a chart, it's, you know, again, going back to what birthdays were saying, if the Moon is our body and our fate and our fortune, then we need to know where, where the Moon is. And, you know, we've got Moon in Capricorn here, so it speaks to, again, body problems and all that, but anyway. Alright, so. Right, so I decided what her chart would look like if I progressed that Ascendant.

Two minutes, and it was less than two minutes, and it gave us this alternative version of her chart? And I don't know whether she'd be impressed with me doing that to her, but later. Okay, so that is it. And I think, you know, I've given a, a lot of information and various different ways that you can use this. These various big things are important because there are so many different views, ideas, and ways to use them. I think that it's possible that you can all at least have a look at these when you're looking at charts that you're interested in and see how they work for you. And I would love to hear from you. And see if you find this works. I've certainly tracked the Ascendant or when you're doing something that you like, the example I gave you of the, of the vehicle document, you know, for me, that just was exactly what I was thinking of at the time was thinking, you know, Where's, where's my document?

Oh, it's lost, you know. So it can really be something as simple as that, or you can take it as far and wide as you want it to, you know, it's entirely up to you. But yeah, I'd love to hear from you. And this is me if you want to contact me. As I said, we'd love to hear from you and anything that you've got to say. I hope everybody enjoys Troy's talk. And I hope everybody followed what I was saying. You know, we've got a little bit of time for Q&A, and I'm just strictly on showing you my bibliography. And, yeah, we're done. Structure.

Michelle
Okay, wow, thank you Saffron. This was great. This was great. It was fascinating; you went really deep into some of the techniques. You also provided an overview of a couple of techniques. I think this was an advanced class; I think people will agree with me that I say that this was advanced study, so just before we take some questions because we had a couple of questions coming in just about the technical bits. Some people were confused about the two charts that we were seeing on the screen.

So, if I can summarize it, please correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not familiar with this technique, either. But the way I understand it is you showed us that table of all of the data category pronouncing that wrong, but you know what I mean, the 12 parts. And so we look at planets in our natal chart. Then, we see where they fall and which 12 parts they fall into. And then, basically, what the software is doing is putting all of those planets into their 12 parts. And that's a second show that we were looking at. Is that right?

Saffron Dennis
Yes, yes. And that's even though, obviously, I needed to show it to you. So you could see where the planets were. I anticipated being a little bit confusing, and I do understand that, but if I like the one where I put them both together for two VLANs, that makes it even more confusing because then you start looking at the aspects. And that's not really what I want you to be looking out for because we're looking at the planet and its availability to access another house.

So that's what I was trying to show there. But yes, it is. I get that that's a little bit confusing, but I'm hoping that you know, when people you know, go back to study the charts, look at where these things lay for them, have the table for them, that they'll actually be able to understand, you know what we're saying? And also if, if people get this Ben dykes, his book, because he's laid it out so beautifully in the trial you can go to so I'm just going to I mean, this is actually another way that you could use these you can use it as a divination tool. Oh, you can pinpoint, right?

What am I looking at? I'm looking at the third 12 parts of Scorpio is Capricorn. So if a planet is the Ascendant, shall we say, we'll just keep it simple. If the Ascendant got to five to seven and a half degrees in Scorpio, then it would be a Capricorn 12 part ruled by Saturn. So satin would be rolling that 12 part and her feisty said that two and a half degrees would be a. The idea would be something about crowds or a fight and a dangerous unpleasantness. I'm sorry, I picked that one. Random, but there are better ones, and we were talking about Mars and Saturn, you know.

And again, you know, that's what we're doing. We're putting the ruler of the places, so what you're doing right, this is how I like to explain it. You work at a corporation, and you've got Jupiter in charge of your corporation; you're, you're in Pisces, and you've got Jupiter there. And then you work through the bounds, or maybe you're in you're in Sutton's bound. So you are your big boss, Jupiter, but your direct boss is Saturn. So the corporation that you're working for is great. But Saturn is actually in charge of the day-to-day running of your work environment, shall we say?

So you're, you've got that idea of, you know, which dignity you have in what you know, who's, who's ruling what, and how much power these planets have? And if you're looking at a 12 part, then that gives you a very pinpoints who's in charge of those two and a half degrees and then being able to connect to the signs that that that sign though, Capricorn in there In that example, so you've got direct access to capital and via being in Scorpio, even if you don't have a planet in Capricorn. So it's that going through the, the wardrobe or the looking glass or you know, you haven't. Yeah, this is the secret. The secret places.

Michelle
Yeah, we like that. Yes. Saffron. Could I trouble you and ask you to show us how you pull up that chart and Astro? Yeah, so yes, you're using astro.com. So I'll give you a minute to take your time. But I think it would be helpful for everyone to see what kind of settings that we need to use. So everybody goes to astro.com if you want to pull up a chart like that, and then we will be able to follow along with saffron, and then we can do our investigations and our detective work with 12 parts.

Saffron Dennis
everybody's gonna be going to their Ascendant going who rose by Ascendant. There is actually there's one thing I didn't mention, and this is a nother way of using the 12 parts. Now, whether or not this way works for me in my chart, I don't think it works for everybody but the Moon; it said that you could look at the place of the Moon and determine out. I think it's either the Moon or the sun or the luminary that is in favor of the sector. So it sort of works, but it doesn't because I'm a day chart, but my Moon is in Virgo, and my Ascendant is in the Virgo of Sagittarius. So my Moon is connected already to the Ascendant. Right. So it's in that place, so Right. Okay. Right. Let me share my screen again,

Michelle
because we do have the table that you shared. Yeah. But then, yeah, I'm curious how to, and other people are curious how, you know, how it is determined that the plan is on fall on exact degrees in that new chart that you pull up? Yep.

Saffron Dennis
Okay. Right. So if you're all in astro.com, or when you go back and go in there, you want to go into your extended chart selection. Can you all see it? Can you see this? Michelle? Yeah, that's okay. Right. So you want to click on here. And then when you go down, down, down, down, right, so this is where you want to be going? dodecad Moriah? Father Shama. Apologies for the terrible pronunciation you show on the chart. This is really what I'm sharing. I'm showing you me, okay? So these are my 12 parts. So, as I said, the Moon, the sorry, my Ascendant, is Virgo. My Ascendant is Sagittarius. Sorry, but the 12th part of the Ascendant, for me, is in Virgo, and my Moon, in the radix chart, is in Virgo. So that was why we're saying in another way, it that idea, and that's why I didn't put it in the presentation is because I've looked it up, and it works very, very rarely that that does come up, come up, but you will find that in some of the texts, I can't remember off the top of my head who put that on, but that was an idea. But so all of my planets here are in different signs in the 12. Park chart. Does this make sense? Because my Mars is in Aries. But it's in the 12th part of Capricorn. Yay, Mars, Mars, Mars for me.

Michelle
So what does it mean? Like you, have you given that example of Mars in the fifth House in your natal chart? Yeah. So you have a son who's a medic in the military. That's the example you gave. Yeah. And so now we see that Mars was actually in the 12th part of Capricorn. Yep. So here in this 12-part chart, we see Mars in Capricorn. It's exalted here. What would you say about that? What kind of clues would that give you if it's not too personal? And if you're comfortable sharing,

Saffron Dennis
of course. Well, you then take the idea of what Mars does in for, so for me, Capricorn is my second House. So what would Mars do in the second House, and how would you speak to Mars in the second House? Well, you would say that that's financial. I would agree that that's financial. I would also agree that that's not really because Mars is the planet contrary to the sector in favor. It's my my malefic. You could say that I've had some ups and downs with finances; you know, it's not been is. Yeah, I can definitely say that. So that's where you would take it, you would take it to give the house a, why is it a, you know, I used to say to people, I believe I've said this to you, Michelle. Now what, what is it about this and this? I've, I have this problem with 24 degrees Capricorn. And every time the Moon hits 24 degrees, Capricorn, I tend to have a little bit of an issue. And certainly, when Venus hits that point, I think it's possible that we've got this connection here to Mars. That's how that's how I'm reading it, you know, but it also speaks again, you know, as I say, I've got Mars in domicile, but I've also got Mars exalted. So it's a really, really strong energy from Mars. I also have Uranus opposite Mars. So, it does make for an explosive temper. Well,

Michelle
Melissa says in the chatbox that several people think the Moon is about to hit that point today. Yes, I know. Yeah, I know.

Saffron Dennis
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Melissa.

Michelle
That's really interesting. Thank you for that example, Sephora. And I think that's really clarifying. So you go to see where that falls into your natal House as well. So you, yeah, you move back and forth back to the natal House. Okay. I hope that is clarifying.

Saffron Dennis
Yes, but I don't know. In further answer to Nadia, I am not a practitioner of Jyotish. So, I cannot speak to how that's used. So, for me, I can't say if there's a difference. So, if anybody wants to share information, then I'd love to hear from them. Obviously, we've all got a structure, a long list of books that we want to buy.

Michelle
Yes. Absolutely. Okay, so here's the question. Are there any examples of how to interpret the 12th part of the Ascendant? I think that should say, when the corresponding part of the chart that is the fifth House, in your example, is occupied by a planet? And does it matter if the planet occupying that part of the chart is not the ruler of it? That is if the fifth House had the Moon instead of the sun that rules it.

Saffron Dennis
Does that? Yeah, yeah, it does. And there are, I can't remember, again, which takes up a lot of time. I've read so many of them. But yes, if there is a planet there, then you use that as well. Because the planets then got access to the 12 parts in the sign. So that planet can then do a bit of traveling through the wormhole if you like. Yeah,

Michelle
yeah. Okay. Thank you. Okay, do you know how we are? Yeah, that's a question. I am sorry if I missed that you said that, but how do we know what degree the planet would be at if we move it to its 12-part sign in the 12-part chart?

Saffron Dennis
Yeah, that is; as I was saying earlier, I don't use it like that. Okay. Okay. Because I think, and obviously you can, but what you would end up doing, you could, again, go into fractals. You could do 12 12-part chart of a 12-part chart of a 12-part chart, or, you know, think about it like it's the Dicor releasing, you know, we look at that Michael releasing on astro.com. And I think it goes down four levels. But you can do that to the millisecond if you want to. Yeah. And by all means, if that's the sort of thing that floats your boat, then go for it. But for me, any more information than that is just too much. So, I really am just looking at from whether the, you know, either the Ascendant or the planet, what other sign House does it have access to? And leave it like that. But as I said, my friend Julie, she uses it the way you are looking, you know, looking at it from that point of view, and aspects to and from what degrees are in and, you know,

Michelle
okay, good. Another question is, are two questions he and see placements in the 12 parts? Do we use them or not? Yeah, why not? Why not? Why?

Saffron Dennis
Am I to tell you whether or not you should use that or not? You know, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Michelle
And I think this person was also anticipating your previous answer: user diaper release has a similar nesting of recursive levels. Do people in the ancient world play with that productively? As an until zero degrees? 15 minutes of Leo? Is the Leo of the Leo of Leo. Yeah. So that's going into fractals? Yeah. Absolutely. Fascinating. Yeah, it's a cyclical nature of time that they had a really good grasp of in ancient times. Yeah. When you find the sign of the 12th part, how is that interpreted? We've said that you look at the ruler's condition. But what about if there are any planets in the sign? So, we already talked about that? Also, is the expression of the planet in the 12th part filtered through the 12-part sign in a similar way to how we look at decades or bounce?

Saffron Dennis
Yeah, and I think that's really what Peter was pointing out to me when we were looking at the Manila LEUs. The point is that there's always going to be a duality of energy; you can't have one without the other. If you're going to one space from one area, then you're going to be able to take that energy there and back again. So yeah, I think that's what they were saying. And so yes, I would say so. Okay,

Michelle
thank you. Oh, just the Lord of the Do, what differs in influence from the bound Lord?

Saffron Dennis
Well, we see the bound Lord, and we, yeah, Adam teaches this: that the bounds have a bit of a sandy feel. Yeah. If I'm right, Michelle, is that right? So he says? And, obviously, the truth part, I think he's a little bit more individual than that. I don't know. I haven't found anything in there that says to me it's got this feeling because it's been taken. And I think it's because it's the same with the Deccan. I think it's very difficult to pinpoint what the energy of the Deccan is because it's taken from another system and has been put into this. Yeah,

Michelle
it was so popular that they just kind of, yeah, it doesn't really fit the Hellenistic system over the decades. But they kept using it because it was so popular. Yeah.

Saffron Dennis
Yeah. This is what we can see in the Babylonian system. That's been bought in. Yes. Yeah. You know, so we've got two systems added in. So how? I don't know how to play with it. See what you think about me? Certainly, it just seems to be very obvious when you're looking at, you know, an ascendant and asking a question. It just seems to be very obvious that that's what it's speaking to. And it speaks to the connection of this, the ruler of this, as I showed in that chart with the vehicle document. Yeah. In both cases, the Moon, the Moon ruled that Ascendant, but the Moon also spoke for the same thing. To me, it was,

Michelle
yeah, that's where the astrology and any kind of technique we use that at that moment, the chart will speak to us or it won't. But if we go, if we do it backward, and we go, try to figure it out in a very technical cold way, the chart is not going to give us much. And it's kind of like you can use this technique and experiment with it. When you feel the time is right, I guess, or when you really want to explore something and are drawn to it. I think that's when the chart will actually speak to you, and the significations will become obvious, I guess. Automatically. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You gave us lots of food to think about as well. Let's see. Do you note the relationships? So, the aspects between the planets in the 12th cart shard? No,

Saffron Dennis
I don't. And that's why we're saying earlier. I don't do that. But I know people that do. So, you know, if that's if that's how you want to work it? Absolutely, you know, go for it. But no, that's not, not how I personally use it. Okay.

Michelle
All right. What? Lots of questions about those degrees. We've answered that one. Yes, we do keep, you know, natal house placement. We refer to that when evaluating the planet. Yeah. Are there any remedies?

Saffron Dennis
Crystal? Wow. Yeah, I mean, as a crystal therapist, yes. But yeah, you would have to have a look and see what was going on with all of the dignities. You know what? What are you looking to remedy? Yeah. So, yes, yes, I would say

Michelle
what exactly is this technique highlighting? What would we use it for? Specifically? Yeah, when do you feel like, oh, it's time to look at the data kind of Moria?

Saffron Dennis
Well, for me, with every chart, certainly for the Ascendant, you know. So for that, the search of the heart, the book that I've been plugging for Benjamin dice, I don't know him personally, and I'm not getting any money for this, just in case anyone keeps mentioning it. But that is a text actually on horary and questions. So, the idea was that you would use it for those pre-consultation charts to work out what was at the heart of the question rather than what the client was actually telling you. So he's giving you that very slight difference in a chart because you would maybe pull that up 10 minutes before your client sits down? They tell you one thing, and you're going well; actually, I think that you're probably here for this, whether you tell them that or not. You don't have to tell them that. But you may find that their chart actually tells you what comes out later from the client. And you can go, Oh, yeah, well, I was expecting that you know, gives you a little bit of extra foresight, just in case astrologist didn't need that, but also, you know, if you've got a client who's got a really debilitated planet, or Ascendant or whatever it may be, you know, maybe look at the 12 part, and you can reassure them that they've got this access to another place in their chart that they didn't know they had. And it could be that they've got access to the 11th House and all of a sudden, you know, that this is why you can find connections with friends and you know, associates and you can be supported, you know, financially in your business or, you know, whatever it may be, you know, you can use it for anything. I got the light, and it is part of the astrology system that uses it. Yeah. Try it out.

Michelle
Somebody's not clear about the 12 part, Lord. You know, does it have a voice? You know, shall we look at the natal placement of the 12 heart, Lord, and also bring in the topics of the houses that are ruled by that 12 part, Lord?

Saffron Dennis
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I

Michelle
can do that. I can; you can make as many connections as you want as long as you don't get confused. Maybe that's a good rule.

Saffron Dennis
To say, you know, like you were asking me earlier about, you know, Mars in Capricorn.

Michelle
You know, yeah. All right. Good. Well, we're running out of time, so somebody says I find it works very well with horary. That's all they tried so far. But yeah, let's get experimenting. But first, I just want to take you all to the cell phone's website for a moment. Let me just get it for you because I lost it. Yes, there we are. And I think it will be great to watch this again. The replay will be posted very soon on the nightlight astrology.com website. But here is the divine Baytree Divine bakery where you can find sovereigns websites and services. Let me move you through that. So, if you want to get a reading with saffron, please do. She has tons of interesting things to say; oh, my goodness, saffron. You've been practicing Astrology for such a long time. You've got an abundance of knowledge. Oh, you made me feel old?

Michelle
Yeah, I don't; well, why is, I would say, why is saffron not old? So go and have a look at the Vine Bay tree. And I will. Is there anything you're offering right now, anything that you want to let people know about saffron and everything that's going on? As

Saffron Dennis
well, at the moment? Nothing other than this was the highlight of my month. But yeah, I mean, come and speak to me; why would what I really wanted to get from this talk was some conversation with people find out what, you know, other ways that they found of using this, if you do find something, you know, later on in your, in your studies, you know, come and come and speak to me about it, because I don't think there's enough people actually discussing this at the moment. But I hope that this talk is actually going to get that out there now. More and more people are actually going to start using this technique. And I think it'll be really interesting to see how other people use it.
Thank you so much.