Dealing With Astrological Anxiety, Part Three: The Astrologer, the Querent and the Student

Transcript:

0:00
Hi everyone, this is Acyuta-bhava from Nightlight Astrology and today I'm doing the third and final part of my series on how to deal with astrological anxiety. So in today's episode we're going to talk about the difference between the astrologer, the querent, and the student or the astrologer, the person consulting the astrologer sometimes called the querent, and the student of astrology. In each of these three roles, astrological anxiety appears in a slightly different way and has to be dealt with and approached in a slightly different manner. So that's what we're going to talk about today. Before I go into that, I want to remind all of you that my new classes coming up soon. So my first year programme is called ancient astrology for the modern mystic and you can check it out on my website nightlightastrology.com. If you go to the courses page, click on the first year course, my second year course and horary programme also begin in the month of June. This is a one year programme that includes about 100 hours worth of classroom content that I teach live on zoom webinars, they're all recorded and kept for you. So if you need to correspond because the class time doesn't work out, you can always watch the videos at your own time and in your own pace, you have a total of two years within which to take the final certification exam. There's also an abundance of guests lectures, optional homework, quizzes, reading assignments, and group forums and breakout study sessions that we hold. I'm available all year round for students to ask questions to, there's an early bird payment available, we save about $500 off when you pay upfront for the course there's the payment plan if you need it. And there's also need based tuition for people who might be in need, because of things like being a part time only worker or, you know being out of work at the moment, or maybe you're single parent or something like that. So take advantage of it. If it'll help, we always try to make sure that everything's really accessible for people. So that being said, let's dive into this third and final part of our series.

1:55
There are three different people who basically consume more consider astrological content, I'm not going to consider people who are just passers by, window shoppers just looking as they pass by. That's interesting. Maybe that leads to one of these three categories later. But the three categories as I see them are the astrologer, the consumer of astrology to call the querent. The person asking the question of the astrologer, the question could be very general, what do you see in my birth chart? What stands out to you in my birth chart that people ask me that all the time? But it could be something very specific, like, will I get pregnant? Or do you see me getting married or how is my compatibility with this person I'm dating or something like that. So you have the astrologer the person doing the astrology, you have the querent, the person asking something of the astrologer, and then you have the student of astrology, the person studying astrology, however, formally or informally, with either the intention to practice or with the desire to learn more about astrology, because it's a hobby, or a personal interest, or whatever the case might be.

3:00
So each of these different categories, it's important to understand, first of all, that many of us fall into several of these categories at once. For example, during any given year, I'm consulting with people literally every day, like, easily over 1000 people a year that I work with, or at the same time, so you know, maybe, at least several times a year, I'm in the position of asking something of the Oracle, asking something of my birth chart or using a horary for myself, or something like that. So there'll be times in which I'm an astrologer, but I'm also asking a question and approaching maybe another astrologer. And then finally, there are students of astrology. Now, most astrologers are perpetual students. And yet they are different roles, and they have certain different kinds of anxiety that go along with them, that a person can deal with. And then there's different ways of trying to deal with that anxiety, why it comes up and how to deal with it is different for each of these categories. So let's break it down.

4:01
First of all, let's talk about the astrologer. First and foremost, the astrologer is a student of the symbol. By the symbol, we mean the symbolic language, the symbols of astrology, whether it's a house, a sign a planet and aspect of dignity, a fixed star, a lot, whatever the case might be, we are students of symbols. By studying symbols, the astrologer for 1000s of years has also been primarily interested in using symbols as a way of ascertaining the source beyond or within or behind the symbol, which means that the study of the symbol is a spiritual exercise it's being done for the sake of drawing closer to some kind of divine symbol maker or the divine intelligence in nature that is the ground of all of these symbols or that is the personal source. symbols however you'd like to think about it. By studying the symbol we find the source of the symbol. And this is something that you will see ancient astrologers and philosophers talking about. So the world when you study symbols with this spiritual intention of understanding the divine intelligence behind and within the symbols, and remember that the symbols aren't just mechanical blueprint language in some kind of mechanistic universe, the symbols are the evidence of something divine speaking with us, whether those are the gods, the planets, or Godhead, the source itself speaking to us, we are also looking through the study of symbol to draw closer to divinity. And that is at the roots of astrology, I should say. The world becomes a moving series of images, myths, symbols, metaphors, analogies that shine or shimmer with the light of divinity, the more that you study them, and that's actually the spiritual intention of the astrologer, that is the number one thing that the astrologer is interested in. And that is the number one thing that the astrologer is hoping that the querent, their client will gain by virtue of visiting with the astrologer. So even though the astrologer is going to address the past, the present or the future, through the symbols, the hope is that the querent, or the one inquiring will come to understand and see that divine intelligence in their life through the symbols.

6:40
We're not interested in astrologers as getting things right, meaning accurate predictions, we're very happy. Of course, if we do make accurate predictions, it's very satisfying, no one's gonna deny that. However, what we're interested is not in getting something right as in a demonstration of our own personal powers, or of the merits of the techniques or something like that. We're not interested in getting it right, we're interested in the symbol. So what is the symbol, and you could choose a different word too, I don't want to quibble too much about it, but I'm using the word symbol today. So let's talk about symbol, what is the etymology of the word symbol? Creed, summary, religious belief, from late Latin symbolim, creed, token or mark. So when you think about reading symbols, what we're really getting at is this idea that they are the, the evidence symbols become the evidence of something intangible. And for many people, the word symbol has been a way of pointing to something beyond a symbol embodies and points beyond itself. It is like the, the dove, you know, coming down with the branch, it there's a way of understanding that spirit has descended into some form and speaks through it. It is a creed, a token or a mark of something beyond from the Greek simbolo symbolom, and I'm probably mispronouncing this, so I apologise, token watchword assigned by which unfort one infers a ticket, a permit or a licence.

8:46
Also, what I really like is a mark. For example, my my daughter's Love, love to come up to me when they're doing their colouring with their markers, and they love to mark my arms and my hands, they they like to come up to me and say, Can I mark you? And then, throughout the day, if they've done that, they'll come back to me and they'll say, look, look, look, see, there's where I marked you earlier. So to know that I'm walking around marked by them means a lot to them. It means something to for me to bear the impression that they've left upon me, and to even bear it proudly or to say, ooh, I really like this, you know. So, similarly, what are we doing with symbolism? What we're trying to do is help people see that their life has been marked by God, that God's little colouring crayons have come in and marked your life. And so when we understand that there's this idea of a symbol marking us with something that it it gives his association with religious belief or that we've been touched by something beyond. Now, of course, it can be used in a very mundane way to say this is symbolic or this symbolises this thing. But if you really deeply think about the general idea of symbolism, it always carries that almost religious, or spiritual connotation where we're marked or touched beyond something, yes, there's an appearance, but the appearance is emblematic of something beyond something that has touched and marked us. Astrologers are not interested in getting it right, we're interested in the mark, we're interested in the touch, we're interested in being touched by symbol. And we're interested in helping others to have the experience of being touched by symbol, when you're touched by symbol, it is just as joyful and simple, and naive and sweet. And yet so profoundly meaningful. Just like a little child, marking you with with their magic marker, to give that experience to someone, it's so powerful, that they walk around their life. And even if it's something as simple as, you know, hey, I'm having a week where you know, I feel crummy, and, but you're marked, that experiences is marked. You can imagine what joy you feel, you know, if you're, if you're sick, or something like that, and your kids come up to you and while you're sick, they they bring you something, it could be the you know, the world's silliest thing, maybe they bring you like a coaster from from your coffee table or something, and they're like, here, I think this will make you feel better. You might end up taking that little cup holder, I randomly randomly came up with the idea of a cup holder, or a coaster, you take that coaster, and you hold it while you're sick in bed with your cold for two days or whatever. And you think, they're with me, you see what I mean. So in the same way, the astrologer is not interested in getting it right. We're not interested in techniques, we're not primarily interested in history, we're not primarily interested in academics, we are interested in being touched and being marked. And we're interested in symbol. And so this, and not anxiety about technique, not anxiety about getting it right, not anxiety about the future, not anxiety about the past, and not anxiety about the present, but interest in the symbol in the mark in being touched by something. Because if you're touched by something, like my kids could give me something, you know, like, they could give me something that I might find sort of useless, or it might scratch my head at. But if they're giving it to me in love, then it is the most meaningful little thing I could have with me. And so similarly in our lives, we may not understand why the signs and symbols speak the way that they do. And sometimes it may even appear like they're there and they're sort of increasing our anxiety because they're not what we want, or they're the events of our lives aren't what we hope for or expect. But if we learn to see things symbolically, then it doesn't matter because we're marked and we're touched. And again, that's what the astrologer is interested in. That's what the astrologer is interested in giving to other people.

13:24
Another etymological association with symbol that which is thrown or cast together, a togetherness, thrown or cast together. Also the idea of throwing things together. So another thing that astrologers are interested in doing is in taking the experiences of our lives and throwing them. It's interesting because you can see the way in which divination has its its roots in the appearance of chance. It's very, it's not chance, per se, it's the appearance of chance. It's the it's the meaningful relationship with chance that divination purposely participates in, the casting of dice the casting of lots, the random casting of a horary chart, the seemingly random moment of birth, but you know, who knows exactly when the bell will strike and the baby will appear? These apparently chance like moments, it feels in the moment because there's a suddenness and an unexpectedness to it, that things are being thrown together. And yet when things are thrown together, there's still a togetherness. There's something that brings the chance together when we decide it is significant, which is akin to saying it is good.

15:01
And so when things are thrown together we we purposely in astrology, we mark it with symbols. And the the chance like nature of life comes together and bears a kind of coherence. And so symbol is, we're interested in symbol because we're interested in the meaningful relationship with the chance occurrences in life, we're interested in bringing those chance occurrences together. So symbol means thrown together. It's something really beautiful to contemplate for a while. So let's go back to our little mantras, we are not interested in getting things right. We are interested in the symbol, in the mark in the touch. We are not interested in solving our past lives, we are not interested in version 2.0 of our karmic best self in this life and all these instructions, we have to figure out to get things right and improve and level up in this lifetime compared to previous lifetime. We are not interested in solving anything from the past the present or the future. We are interested in the touch, we are interested in the mark, we are interested in the symbol. We are interested right now in finding meaningful ways to let the universe colour on us with its magic markers. And the astrologer is the one, the storyteller, the web Weaver, the myth holder, the bard, the singer, the songwriter, the one who understands the different kinds of music that can bring that touch into our lives regardless and is the instant healing for anything instantly dismisses all of this overly literal ideas about our past and our future with regard to karma and things we have gotten wrong and things we have to correct. No, we're not interested in any of that astrology really hasn't ever been interested in all of that. It's been interested in the mark or the touch of the Divine through the symbol, and the meaningful instructions that we can also receive when trying to live a life through symbols.

17:08
So remember, that for people like Plato, this world that we live in is a world of images and appearances. If we study them, as they bear resemblance to the eternal ideas in the mind of God, the eternal archetypal forms, the logos, the heavenly images, then everything in this world relates back to it and so everything bears the mark or touch of the Divine. And broadly speaking, if we don't have that in our lives, then we're living in a world of appearances that have no rootedness, or in the roots, like the Bhagavad Gita, pictures, this world as a tree that's upside down, we're in the branches and the roots are upward. Isn't that beautiful? So that the roots are actually heavenly. And, weirdly enough, the more that you are able to see this world of appearances in terms of these eternal archetypes, the more rooted your experience in this world becomes, it's more embodied in a divine way. That's a paradox because it would it would almost it again, it flips it on its head. That's why you see again, in the Gita that the picture of the universe as a tree with its roots upward, same exact way that James Hillman describes the world and the growth of the soul in his book, The Soul's Code, he talks about rooting upward. And as opposed to the roots of the tree being down in the ground. That's really, really beautiful way of thinking about it. Because if we understand again, if we understand our lives and the movements of our lives through all of the images, myths, metaphors, and symbols of the eternal.

19:02
There's this book called The Illustrated man. And it was supposed by Ray Bradbury, I read it long time ago, but he had like tattoos like all over his body, or if you ever seen if you have kids, you know this movie Moana. So Maui, the demigod has like moving tattoos all over his body. And like, that's what life is when you live with symbol, that's what it becomes. And you it's, it almost becomes when you live that way, you're eternal so it becomes irrelevant what's happened in the past, the present or the future, in a sense. I mean, it's not that it becomes irrelevant isn't there's no meaning in it. There's no meaning and learning and growing and so on and so forth. It's just that you also recognise that, you know, whatever, whatever stories you're you're living, it's far more important that you just be feeling that that you're you're touched and that you're rooting in the divine the whole time. The more that you're doing that the more open you are to receiving the the guest of your own experience.

20:05
So at any rate in the Silver Chair, which is my favourite Narnia book, The Silver Chair is the moon book. It was the book that CS Lewis imbued with the alchemical symbolism of the moon, according to mediaeval astrologers, who he really admired. The Silver Chair is of course, a moon image, the silver being the metal of the moon. At the beginning of the book before the heroine in the book, Jill goes down into Narnia to go seeking after a lost Prince, she receives instructions from Azlan as to how to navigate this adventure that she's going to have in Narnia. Here's what he says. He gives her a series of instructions and he says, follow these signs. When you're down there, all these things are going to happen. This adventure is going to play out, it's a very harrowing you're going to have you're going to have crisis of doubt, you know, all these things are going to come up. But here are the signs to watch for. So he says this, he says, Remember, remember, remember the signs, say them to yourself when you wake in the morning, and when you lay down at night, and when you wake in the middle of the night. And whatever strange things may happen to you, let nothing turn your mind from following the signs. And secondly, I give you a warning. Here on the mountain I have spoken to you clearly I will not often do so down in Narnia. Here on the mountain The air is clear and your mind is clear. As you drop down into Narnia, the air will thicken. take great care that it does not confuse your mind. And the signs which you have learned here will not look at all like you expect them to look when you meet them there. That is why it is so important to know them by heart and pay not attention to appearances. Remember the signs and believe the signs. Nothing else matters. This could very well be the creative astrologers replaced sign with symbol. By the way, the ancient word for we have literally the same word being used the sign like like a symbol or an omen. Let's break this down little by little and show the archetypal parallels to what we do as astrologers.

22:32
Remember, remember, remember the signs, say them to yourself when you wake in the morning, and when you lay down at night. And when you wake in the middle of the night. This is the equivalent of a mantra. So learning the astrological language learning the combinations of houses planet signs, letting your life be permeated with the different combinations of symbols, symbols, images, myths, and metaphors is the equivalent of a kind of mantra that you're learning. It's not quite the same as a literal mantra that you might sit down and repeat with beads, which is also a very good idea. If your astrologer by the way to have a spiritual practice like that, we'll talk about that later. But we are in the repetitive movement, we are circumambulating our lives by and we're as we walk around our lives, we're reciting the symbolic language. And the reason we get to walk around our own lives and be like a devotional participant, hosting the guest of our own experiences, hosting the gods as our experiences is, as we circumambulate around our lives, we get to do so because we're following the planets that are circumambulating in the heavens. So when we follow the planets, we circumambulate our own lives, and we become the host of our own experiences, because we see them as gods. We see them as these eternal ideas.

23:55
And when we're doing that, we have to remember the signs we have to train ourselves to see the signs to know the signs to love the signs. And our goal is not to be right. It's not about technique. It's not about philosophy. It's not about having some special mystical powers or abilities. It is about the sign and being marked by the sign and being a devotional attendee to the signs. And then it's about giving other people the experience of the signs because when other people remember the signs and learn to remember, remember, remember the signs that's what an astrologer is giving you and the very essence of that is to alleviate anxiety that we have caught up in a world of appearances, that without an understanding of their eternal nature in the realm of the gods in the in the realm of the a day. We're lost, you know, we really get lost. And then as land warns about this, he says, Whatever strange things may happen to you let nothing turn your mind from following the signs. Look for them. In other words, Don't get lost don't get confused. Secondly, I give you a warning here on the mountain I have spoken to you clearly I will not often do so in Narnia. Here on the mountain, the air is clear and your mind is clear. As you drop down into Narnia, the air will thicken. When we study astrology, we're on the mountain were in that position of sages, hermits. contemplatives. Remember, that's a very Saturnian thing to study astrology. For chinos, famous Renaissance astrologer said that the and Dante who gave the seventh sphere of heaven to contemplatives, it's a very Saturn like thing, we have to, in a sense distance ourselves, remove ourselves from the world have a certain degree of detachment that we cultivate, because if we're only studying from the place of anxiety and connection and attachment to outcomes in the world, it's really hard to be a student of astrology, that the astrologer is one who's cultivated a certain kind of distance, and detachment. They've heard the signs on the mountain somewhere, they go to the mountain deliberately, they live and practice and work from that space deliberately all the time. And when we're on that mountain top space, things are very clear, it's very easy to understand. And we have to have that space. Why? Because we're also worldly beings who are going to talk with work with and ourselves will be people caught up in the world of appearances where the air is thicker, denser, it's easier to be confused. The signs don't always appear in the way that we think they will. They're actually much harder to predict than we think they are. But as astrologers we are that that little mountain top Oracle that people have to walk all day to get to it. Metaphorically speaking, we are the proverbial perch, like the Hermit card in tarot, we're bringing people that space to get some distance so we can remember Oh, yes, the air is clearer. Now. I remember I'm a spirit soul, I'm travelling through the worlds I have to remember the signs. I'm on a journey. We remember the signs, remember the signs, remember the signs. The astrologers doing that for people. And the point is to alleviate anxiety. So if once we go back to the world, the air thickens, take great care that that thickness of air does not confuse your mind. So we need these practices, we need these symbols, because the world will tend to confuse our mind. The signs which you have learned here will not look at all like you expect them to look when you meet them there. That is why it is so important to know them by heart, and not pay attention to appearances. Remember, in an earlier episode, I read from you Firmicus Maternus' message to the student and he says at the end of the day, it's not what you learn in these books. It's when you commit them to memory and they go into your heart and the process of making yourself I'm more like the divine. When when you when your life becomes in pursuit of some kind of communion with the divine and you take on the adornments of virtue, and you study these things. It's not so much what you will have learned in books, although that's important, but it's not so much what you will have learned in books, but it's the Divinity that will have come into your heart and mind in the way you see the world that will be how you speak and perform this art for others Firmicus explicitly says that to students.

28:19
That is why it is so important to know them by heart and not pay attention to appearances. Remember the signs and believe the signs nothing else matters. So this is the realm of appearances. Ancient astrologers called it the sublunary realm. And literally it was thought of as a denser place. So Lewis, remember, this is the book themed on the moon, the silver chair, and he's talking about the sublunary world and how to take these higher perceptions and how to follow signs and omens down in that world where it's very easy to get lost in appearances. The correct alchemization of the moon in astrology, in other words, is the ability to see the world as a shimmering emblem or symbol of the Divine just like the moon is not the original light or reflective light, but it's been touched. The moon is the ultimate symbolic planet, because it itself is the carrier the mirror of a light that is not its own. That's what a symbol is. That's what a symbol does. That's what the little magic marker on my arm does. It's not the magic marker, literally. It's what it points me toward. So similarly the astrologer is here in the world of appearances to see the truth and to to remember the signs and to remember the symbols. So first of all, if that is our mission, anxiety and attachment to appearances and outcomes, or to fixing things from some kind of broken, terrible past life, or anything like that is not it. We're getting lost if we do that.

29:59
Now we may unintentionally do that we may unintentionally get involved in that and it may be part of the path to get involved in those things. But we have to keep coming home to the core spiritual purpose of astrology. Remember, remember, remember the signs say them to yourself when you wake in the morning when you lay down at night when you wake in the middle of the night, whatever strange things may happen to you let nothing turn your mind from following the signs. Remember the signs and believe the signs nothing else matters. That is what the astrologer is about.

30:31
Now, the querent. The querent is the person approaching the astrologer. The querent is in the valley of life in the dense air of the sublunary realm caught up in the world of appearances an anxious about them by nature, anxious about them, you don't approach an astrologer unless you have some anxiety about where you're at in the board, Game of Life, and you're looking for signs, you're looking for symbols. What people don't always understand consciously is that what they're seeking for is to be touched or marked, to come back to some kind of meaningful symbolic orientation that helps them feel like they are walking home. They're following the breadcrumb trails, they have not forgotten, the air has gotten clear again, if only for a moment, and the signs are guiding them back homeward to the heart not to some literal destination where you level up because you've mastered your north node or whatever, whatever the whatever the case might be. No. The querent is missing signs and symbols, they're missing that feeling of being marked or touched. And it can happen to anyone it can happen to the astrologer In fact, the astrologer is often the querent. And so it's not as though the astrologer is always sitting on the mountain, just I've got all of the clarity in the world. No, the astrologer needs astrology because they recognise though the only thing they recognise is that I'm in need of symbolic reorientation constantly. And maybe I'm a slightly more aware of the fact that I need that than others, maybe, you know. But I, you know, astrologers can be querents. And this is where it gets tricky, because sometimes we're somewhere in between, you know, we might be helping people understand their lives symbolically, in one way in our life, because we're so interested in a subject like this, we may be very good at helping people, but on another level, you know, it can scare the crap out of us, because we're just as tangled up in the realm of appearances as anyone else. On any given Wednesday, you know, I could be just as entangled as anyone else. So, the querent is anyone missing or seeking the signs and symbols, missing or looking for the marker touch, they can't read them on their own, they can't find them. They're missing them. They can't be objective about them. And they have some anxiety about the world of appearances, most of which will show up in terms of feeling lost, feeling overwhelmed, feeling afraid, desiring something, wondering if you'll get something wondering if something will be taken away, or just feeling lost and like, you need that reorientation to know that you're walking a meaningful path again, those are the things that people go to astrology for. And there's nothing wrong with going to astrology for that. But the pretext of astrology is existential anxiety. It is anxiety in the world of appearances in the sublunary wealth realm, we feel lost, we're looking for that orientation. And so astrology is by its nature addressing existential anxiety. So it's okay that there's anxiety involved with astrology.

33:42
We need to help people find and remember the signs so that the the anxiety drops. But this is the big. This is the big problem for people who are intent upon controlling the world of appearances. Rather than coming back to that feeling of being marked or touched by the signs and symbols, there's a big problem. Because if we falsely believe ourselves, the controller of this world and of our destiny, not that we have no participation whatsoever. But if we believe that we're totally in control of it, that there aren't gods and divine forces and forces and laws of karma and nature working with us and the intersection of our fate with other people's fate and destiny, and the mysterious interaction of freewill. If we haven't surrendered to the complexity of all of that yet, we're in big trouble because if the astrologer comes in and says, look for this sign or symbol, look for this omen. Look, this myth, this metaphor, this area of life is going to be touched by this God and this sign and symbol around this time. That is fundamentally a helpful thing because it brings us back to our life being touched, but if we are insistent upon only one kind of experience, and only one way that we will accept the grace. Like if my daughter came up to me and I said, Well, you know, you've brought me a coaster, and I really need some theraflu or something like that, you know, then I will have missed the opportunity to receive the grace, which is the marker token that I'm being given. So there's that quote, again, from Prince Caspian, I've spent so much of my life trying to get back what was taken, rather than taking care of what has been given. So when an astrologer without, you know, astrologers can unintentionally or sometimes intentionally scare people, that's not cool. That of an astrologer is helping us understand the movement of the signs and symbols and the unfolding of destiny, and helping us to feel that marker touch. And we are going to say, well, that's not the way I was hoping it would go, or that's not what I wanted to hear, or that's not where I want the story to go, then we're not really approaching astrology for the right reasons. And we will not be able to receive the marker touch that's trying to come into our life. So for people who are intent on controlling the world of appearances, who falsely believe themselves to be the controller's of everything, there's nothing worse than someone telling you that there is a plot already waiting twists and turns already waiting signs and omens that will appear and guide you in experiences that may not be the ones you choose or want or hope for, for many people that is terrifying. It'll might be scary. But it doesn't change the fact that it is worse to go it alone without signs and under the illusion that you're in control of everything, and that life sucks and if it doesn't turn out the way you want it to. I don't I don't think that your the odds are not good that you will be happy living under that kind of paradigm.

36:56
Our best chance at freedom, if we're interested in freedom, by the way, because some people might through astrology, they may also feel like Well, I'm, I'm fated, there's no choice, our best chance at freedom. Our best chance is to learn how to listen, to learn how to pay attention to and follow the signs. When we listen, pay attention to and follow the signs, we enter into a cooperative and co creative relationship with our our spiritual guides, the gods and Divinity itself. That's our only chance for real freedom. Otherwise, if so, and I will tell you right now, I don't know how that happens without having to go through the purification of anxiety. There's just no way around it. You can't. The reason that we have anxiety is because we're trying to control everything and because we don't yet recognise the degree to which we have to surrender our sense of being the controllers before we can have freedom. Until we do that until we learn how to do that. Like, of course astrology is gonna make you anxious, because the bottom line is that you're not nearly as in control of your life as you think you are. And if you're not going to be if you can't square with that, and and trust that there is joy, co-creativity and greater freedom in in moving into that reality, then yeah, you're definitely going to feel like you're screwed, you know. But on the other hand, if you can know, okay, maybe I have a rough Saturn experience coming. And you don't know exactly what that means we could just like as land says, right? He says, what does he say very clearly, he says the signs which you have learned here will not look at all like you expect them to look when you meet them there. So another thing that we have to be aware of is that doing and doing astrology, we're not trying to predict exactly what will happen. Not exactly what we're trying to sometimes are a little bit more concrete than others. But what we're really trying to do is get into a space where we are prepared to see and recognise the signs when they come. So if I sit down with someone and talk about a Saturn experience, there might be some anxiety that's going to come up in hearing that you're about to meet Saturn on the road of life. But my again, my experience is that like Well, you're going to meet Saturn regardless. So do you want to meet Saturn with a worldview that assumes that you're in control of everything? Or do you want to meet Saturn with a worldview that assumes that there are Gods on your path who will cross at certain times like I'd rather do you know, like, for me, I'd rather be be prepared and be able to be a good host to the gods that I meet. Just like, you know, when I grew up, I remember there's a saying in the Christian church, like as you know, someone comes to your door and you never know who's who's coming to your door. You know, someone's trying to sell you something he does back in the day people don't really come door to door trying to sell you anything anymore. But, you know, people come to your door and they knock on the door and you get so irritated or whatever you don't know who they are you act rudely. It's like, No, that was a big no no in in the ancient world, and it is in a spiritual person's life too, because that could be a god. So when we say bad things are going to happen. That's not the way that ancient astrologers were thinking about it, they were thinking more like Saturn stuff is going to happen. And the astrologer is the one who says, I'll take it, because I want to bear the mark of divinity in my life, I want to be an attendant to this experience. And I can do that, because I'm an immortal, eternal being. Right? So there's my freedom, I have the freedom to be a good host, because I'm eternal. So if you want to take away your anxiety, start there, and then start thinking about how to host your experiences from the standpoint of your own eternality. But why do we forget that because it's a little dense down here, we're caught up in materiality, where there is impermanence, and where we cling very tightly to our, our mortal frame. It's just part of the deal. And it's a it's actually a beautiful part of the deal. The more that you understand it, and be the more that you age and embrace this worldview of following signs in my experience, the more that you're like, my mortality is what makes everything so fragile and sacred, it's so beautiful. And that preparation for a Saturn return or whatever the case might be. Having that preparation you know, it's like prom night or something, there's there's a way that you feel nervous, but in a good way. Because you know that there's nothing that divinity couldn't mark you with, that isn't just totally beautiful from the standpoint of eternity, which is who and what you are.

41:55
The querent is going to have to address existential anxiety, they are there in a sense to help get back to a space of trusting and seeing and sensing the signs and it's actually far more difficult to help people go beyond their their desire for good things than it is to help them get over their fear of bad things. I find that most of my clients are pretty resilient. When it comes to accepting that learn that life has difficult seasons, I find that my my clients are much more apt to getting lost and deliriously confused when things are going really well. That's just, that's harder, because when things are going well, we're like, Yeah, well, I deserve it. You know, I've been doing so well. And of course, I have a good fate or something like that. We don't think of our success as something that we still need to be a humble servant of instead, you know, we tend to get a little high and puffed up on those things. And actually, those are actually often far more dangerous.

42:57
Finally, there's the student of astrology and the student is the mixture between the querent and the astrologer. Most are perpetual students, if we're honest, like I'm a perpetual student of astrology, as much as I'm an astrologer, and sometimes the querent ideally, as we evolve in our practice of astrology, we should be compartmentalising some of these things a little bit, for example, when I first started, I studied my own chart and was more obsessed with my own questions and inquiries and the signs and symbols as they pertained to my own life than I am now 11 years later. Now, I would say that I very rarely approach astrology for anything personal. Although I pay attention to the signs and movements of planets all the time, I just don't go asking or wondering about anything very much anymore. That is something that all astrologers should be aspiring to, that's a good sign of growth. That's a this is what my teachers have told me too. So I'm not just trying to toot my own horn. I'm not perfect either. I still have loads of anxiety that comes up sometimes, especially with my kids and their charts. But the the true the mark of progress over time, is that it's okay to study our own charts and to be more in the mode of inquiry for ourselves. But over time a mark of progress is the student of astrology becomes more of the astrologer. And the astrologer is one who is following the signs as a kind of spiritual practice and not someone who is as anxious about outcomes and appearances, the anxiety has lessened. And that's actually the purifying effect of astrology, like if you want to do astrology, you're gonna have to go through a lot of anxiety, it will eventually be very purifying, and you'll find that you don't really approach astrology as much anymore. This breakthrough for me started happening maybe four or five years ago I started this you know, mantra and a lot of my videos telling people like you're not your chart, because I was realising I wasn't my chart because I was getting some really healthy distance from it for the first time in my career, and that's just like you hit a threshold like that when you're practising astrology long enough where you just go like, this is a tool. I don't have to use it obsessively for myself. Now, compartmentalising, your role as an astrologer versus a querent is really helpful. So being like, sometimes I may need to approach but be really careful and thoughtful about how and when you do it, and why and then it Are you going to read yourself, are you going to approach someone else, a lot of the times the student of astrology, the biggest mistake is that you're in an echo chamber in your own head, trying to be both the student and master of your own nativity or your own chart, that's really hard to do. And as you go along getting readings from other astrologers getting advice or insight from other people, that's going to help a lot so that you don't feel like you have you really aren't the best person to be reading your chart. And I know it's like sacrilege to say like, well, there's no one that knows me better than me. It's like, Yeah, well, there might be people who know the symbols better than you, especially if you're a rookie, and you're really like hung up still on your own, like existential angst. Not that we all aren't. But like that's what an astrologer is supposed to help you do. And when you're a student, you'll often cross those wires a lot. And I can really amplify your anxiety because you know, enough to be dangerous, and you're still too self obsessed. And I'm not trying to say that meanly like, that's just how it is.

46:40
But we can compartmentalise a little bit to like we can say okay, like like, even just like this, like there's a technique, I'd like to sit down and like look at my chart and apply this technique and try to write down a few conclusions. And then I close my computer, I close my book, I close my notebook, like taking very structured time to learn and study techniques and apply them to your chart, and then kind of close that down. Rather than being in a spin cycle 24 seven of astrological, navel gazing, that's just not going to be healthy for people and it's going to increase your anxiety. Finally, it helps to work for others more than for yourself at some point. Now I don't I don't like to condemn looking at your own chart or studying your own chart. I really encourage it for you know, students early on, but looking at other people's charts and reading for other people, is where you're going to start getting a lot more of the deeper understanding of of symbol of being marked by symbolism of learning how to see symbols actively in other people's lives, it helps you to be objective with your own chart. So you if you are not working for others more than yourself, at some point with astrology, it becomes really hard to go to I want to call it like a next level or something. It's not quite the right phrase, but it's hard to like mature as an astrologer. If at some point, you're not reading for other people more than just using it for yourself. Another way of putting it maybe you're not going to have a professional practice. But it would be that you need to be in the practice of regularly contemplating the symbols in life and in the world outside of your own personal drama, or outside of your own personal you know, sphere. So even as a kind of contemplative daily exercise to look at the news or to reflect upon how you see astrology in different areas of life in a sort of detached manner, almost like a journalist would reflect upon current events or something like that, you need that kind of objective viewing and watching of the symbols. Because even your own life is a part of the current events like I'm not my ego, I'm not this body, I'm here temporarily, but I need to be able as an astrologer, my soul has to gain some distance and some ability to observe astrology at work without the ego, like attached and invested. So if you can do that reflectively on, you know, I think it's easier to do so and really mundane ways like watching a moon cycle or watching a quick hitting aspect from Venus or something and kind of going like, oh, wow, that was really interesting. Inevitably, you're going to be able to reflect upon the symbols of astrology in your day to day life. But you need some distance in working for others or in looking at using the symbols objectively outside of your own self. It is impossible to learn the Divinity horary art of astrology without reading regularly for others. It's impossible to learn the Divinity art of astrology without tracking your own signs and symbols. And there's a combination of those two things that always have to be happening. I would say again as you evolve, less self focus and more focus on a more detached view of things happening around you in the world with the symbols or a lot of immersion into reading for other people is the best way to mature and grow.

49:55
One thing that people commonly mistake is that I can know a lot about technique, I can know a lot about philosophy, I can know a lot about history, and that that that is good enough. And I guess this is my soapbox where I want to say it's just not. If you're someone who doesn't have the experience of sitting in a live session, where you, you have to be present and attentive to the signs and symbols, and help people have that experience of being marked by them through your mind, your speech and your heart, and your insight into the symbols themselves, you're becoming receptive to the Divinity speaking through them, if you don't have that experience regularly, it's really hard to grow and mature as an astrologer. So students have to look for those experiences. Because if you don't, one of the things that's happening is you're not really being a student any longer you're a querent that thinks they're a student, meaning you're you're constantly asking things of astrology or you're trying to capitalise on it or get something from it or gain something from it. But you're not putting yourself into that vulnerable position of having to learn how to be a steward of the symbols, how to help people experience them, and to feel touched by them. If you're not serving the symbols in some way like that regularly. You know you're not doing the real thing, in my opinion.

51:31
And the all of these things will bring up anxiety because dealing with anxiety we have over the realm of appearances as part of how we're purified. I've said this a few times in this talk, this is even more true for students than for clients who may use astrology very rarely. So again, like one of the problems with being a student is when you're in student mode. It's like a lot of the times you're actually you're a querent or someone trying to use astrology for yourself, but you think that you're acting as a student. So there's not healthy compartmentalization or separation between your kind of like, student spiritual practice developing and someone who is studying astrology, but using it to obsess over something or trying to build a name or fame or career, whatever the other cases might be. Many people who listen to astrology content, I would say are unconscious or unintentional students of astrology as well. And so the anxiety that astrology can bring into your life is amplified because you're taking on a spiritual path without realising that that's what you're doing. So for example, like, you know, people contact me and they're like, I'm listening to a lot of astrology content, and like, some of it makes me anxious. And I'm like, Well, yeah, because you're taking in symbolic language that's helping you to see this higher, divine reality, but you're not getting distance from it. And you get distance from it by taking on more formal practices of students and practitioners and formal training and formal, like apprenticeship and you need the guidance of being able to, you know, recognise what, what's getting to a point where I guess I'm a student of astrology. Okay, great. And then you need to have some formalising things to help you make some healthy compartmentalization. If you don't, then you're unconsciously you're becoming a student, but you don't know. You don't have the right tools in place to help you deal with anxiety that can come up from a lot of astrological. So people are oversaturated with astrology, they don't have enough formal tools to help them, make it into a practice make it a little bit more formal. Formalising can happen in a bunch of ways one can be just getting organised and becoming more of a student, setting up your time and your space for different kinds of studies and practices. And you can do that a lot of people do it on their own. I think obviously finding an astrologer or several astrologers to study with, to study under to get recommendations for reading and training purposes, to ask questions of astrologers of how to develop professional practice and professionalising compartment for in your life for astrology. So sometimes people get anxiety because they're they're starting to become a student of astrology, but they don't realise it yet. And that's going to amplify, you know, it's sort of like, if a person were to start, you know, walking around their neighbourhood mindfully, right and not really realising that they're practising walking meditation every day, and they're getting deeper and deeper into it. And so they're like, Oh my god, all sorts of stuff is coming up as well. Yeah, you're you're walking around for three miles every day meditating, and you don't even realise it. So if you're taking an astrological content all the time and you don't realise what what you're doing, and you don't have anyone to help you create some healthy differentiation between you know, your your astrological content life and the other areas of your life. Yeah, it probably will increase your anxiety.

55:02
The other thing most people don't realise is that if you're taking on a lot of astrological content in your life, and yet you don't have a spiritual practice, or there's a lot of other areas of your life that are really unhealthy are sort of out of control. That's not necessarily a good thing. It would be like, if you were to go to some kind of physical boot camp on some random Wednesday morning, and then every couple of weeks just do that and otherwise are completely out of shape, like your risk of injury is a lot higher. So similarly, if you're taking in astrological content, somewhat regularly, but there's other areas of your life that are like really out of shape, that's going to the way you end up experiencing and filtering, that astrological content is going to provoke or increase anxiety.

55:58
So these are some of the things that I would say, if you're an astrologer, then you're always a student. If you're a student, you may not know that you're a student. If you're a student, you need to have some distance between your own intake of astrology in your study of astrology. If you're an astrologer, same thing you need to if you're a practising astrologer, then you need some healthy differentiation between your student life, your practising life and the space in which you may even ask something of astrology for your own anxieties. The point of today's talk is not to map out exactly how to deal with all this stuff, because it's an ongoing experience for me, you know, but just to just to give people the idea that one of the reasons that astrological anxiety exists, especially in the modern world is that these three roles, the astrologer who helps people feel the touch and mark of the symbol is dedicated to the symbol, the querent, the one who is looking for the signs and reorientation, who needs to find them who has forgotten them who has some anxiety. And the student, the one who consciously or unconsciously, is absorbing lots of astrological content, the one who is practising astrology, asking something of astrology and learning astrology. These are all complicated. They each have their own reality. And so understanding them and talking about them becoming more aware of when you're in each different space in your relation to astrology can really help to ease the burden of that astrological anxiety. Finally, this is the number one thing that can help ease if you're into astrology, and it brings up anxiety for you, no matter which category you may identify with. Remember that, ultimately, the entire system of astrology is really built around the sun. And the sun is the light of the higher mind and of truth, if we don't have a higher image or images, a collection of them personal images to move toward an embody, as we study, practice, or consult with or for others than we will not learn to read and follow the signs. Remember, in ancient astrology, the ninth house was called the joy of the sun in the house was called God. Whether it's Jesus or the Buddha, or Krishna, or you know, some other avatar or saint we need the archetypal images of virtue in our lives of the best possible person or the best possible action or conduct or behaviour or the best possible version of ourselves that even if you're an artist, the best possible artist, the ethical, beautiful artist, or you know, whatever the case might be. We need the sense of the ideal, eternal, higher self. And we need to be moving toward that constantly. We need to be moving toward that in both good times and bad times when we get what we want. And when we don't get what we want when we're afraid and attached to outcomes. And fearful of what will come or when we're in. In the middle of receiving, we're in a real high in our life. We need to keep moving toward that image, not with some self flagellating whip on the back with steady, soft, dedication, humble but confident. When we move in that direction toward that truth, it naturally starts filling us with intelligence from within. And our anxiety doesn't go away, but we attend to it with care. We're confident even as we're anxious where we can be more things at once. But when we keep moving toward that. For some people that might be very religious and formal path for other people. It's just attending to that sense of higher self that speaks to you from within your conscience. I believe spiritual practice is a really important part of it. I think we need the support of spiritual traditions and practices. So I'm a big believer in the the usefulness of that. But the point is that astrology is a solar practice. Why are we studying all of this? Because we're interested in the a day. And we can see them in this world, when we watch the patterns of nature, the cycles of the planets, the seasons of life playing out, they all are pointing us home. And they're all guiding us toward the best possible version of ourselves, our Bodhisattva nature, if you want to say it like that, or something. And if we keep moving toward that, as we study astrology, and juggle these roles of being an astrologer versus being a querent, versus being a student, the anxiety will lessen in time. And I'm very confident to say that because that's what's happened for me is to just, I've just stuck to my practices every single day, my meditation, my prayer, my study of astrology, my sharing with you guys, my working with clients, by working with students, this is my spiritual practice. And the more that I've just stuck with it and kept going with it, my anxiety has dramatically lessened in my life, it's not gone, I still have it, I just have a different relationship with it. I feel marked and touched. I feel like I live in a symbolic reality.

1:01:20
So I hope this series has been helpful for you guys know, this lesson was easily the hardest for me to sort of capture and summarise neatly because it's it's tough to talk about these three different positions. That I feel like we're we're sometimes negotiating. But leave your comments for me in the comment section. How do you? How do you experience being in any of these positions? How do you navigate them? How do you weave them together? How do you separate them out? How do you deal with astrological anxiety? Maybe perhaps, some point down the road we'll revisit this topic as new insights come up because I can tell you that every year of my life of doing this, I've learned new things about these topics. So with that I very humbly submit to you the series. I hope that it was good thing for all of you and I hope you're having a great week. We'll talk to you soon. Bye.