The Sky Speaks – A Conversation About the Saturn-Neptune Conjunction in Aries

Hey everyone. This is Adam Elenbaas from Nightlight Astrology [https://nightlightastrology.com/].

Today I am taking a break from content creation, giving myself a little rest after a really busy end of the year. And so what I've got prepared for you today is a replay of a really fascinating conversation that I hosted last summer at almost exactly the time that Saturn and Neptune met in the sign of Aries. They came very close to meeting exactly, but then they both turned retrograde, shifted directions and didn't quite get together. Now they're about to in the month of February, and so I thought it would be a really nice time to refresh on this conversation.

This is a panel discussion between myself and a big group of my friends and colleagues, other professional astrologers who are very well respected in the larger astrological community. And I think if you saw this panel presentation, it's worth refreshing on to hear what this collection of all star astrologers have to say about Saturn, Neptune and Aries.

I was privileged to host the conversation. I have some insights that I throw in, but mostly I'm facilitating and hosting these guests and hearing what they have to say. But you're also, if you didn't hear it, then you're in for a treat, because you're going to hear something, if you're newer to the channel that we did last summer that will give you an amazing depth of insight into the upcoming transit so that's what I'm going to do today. I'm going to replay that episode for you. I hope you enjoy it.

Before we get into it, as always, remember to like and subscribe, share your comments and reflections. It really helps the channel to grow. No promotions for the day. You can find transcripts of any of these daily talks on the website, of course, which is Nightlight astrology.com

the only thing I'm going to mention is a big thank you again for the success of our Kickstarter campaign. Late pledges and late rewards are open on the Kickstarter page. You'll find it at the top of the comments or in the description, if you still want to pledge, or if you missed picking up one of our rewards, they're all still available for we're going to keep it open for probably about 10 days or so, so you have another couple of days at least to take advantage of that if you want to.

And once again, thank you so much for supporting the channel. On that note, I hope you will enjoy this amazing panel discussion on the Saturn Neptune conjunction in Aries, which is coming up in February.

I want to warmly welcome you to this awesome panel discussion that we're going to have today. Y'all watch the channel regularly. My name is Adam. This is Nightlight astrology. Probably a lot of you have been made aware of this panel talk through my YouTube channel, through some of the advertising we've done, but maybe you're also coming in because you're a fan or follower of one of our guest astrologers today, if so, welcome to the channel. It's really nice to have you here. I hope that you will enjoy the content today.

Five years ago, in 2020 I think it was January, we held a panel talk on the upcoming conjunction of Saturn and Pluto in the sign of Capricorn and all of the astrologers here today, in addition to one new voice, Catherine urban, who's new to the panel, was here in 2020 to discuss that historic outer planetary alignment.

And I was recently, I recently connected with Jason Holly, and it was like, hey, what if, what if we got that group back together and did something again. And I was like, That is a great idea. I love that. And and my, my friend and my, actually my first astrology teacher, Rebecca Gordon, apparently Jason and Rebecca were talking, and they were also saying something similar. So it was just very synchronistic the way it all came together, that we could get everyone back on this panel together, and the time and date worked out for everybody.

And at that time, it was really interesting, because we talked about Saturn, Pluto and Capricorn, and really laid out a lot of delineations that would play out over the course of the next year. None of us knew that, you know, a pandemic was coming. None of us knew that that year would be such an epic year, but when I look back at that Saturn Pluto panel talk, we were all talking so on an archetypal level, we were outlining some of the major themes that we would all experience that year, and it ended up being one of the more remarkable moments of like a collective astrology reading that I've ever witnessed or been a part of, where a whole group of astrologers came together and kind of talked about this historical event. And you could go back and watch that and kind of reflect on 2020 and it was really cool how, I think, how accurate everyone was without even necessarily knowing specifically what was to come.

So that being said, I will say at the outset, I think we are all hoping that in this breakdown of Saturn and Neptune, we will not be entering into something as dramatic as the covid year. But nonetheless, it's a really important and I think really meaningful transit of Saturn and Neptune coming up here in the next. Year, five years later, halfway into the decade, to bring the same group back to discuss the archetypal significance of an astrological event like this. I think it's just really special.

And I can't wait for you to if you haven't heard or met these astrologers before, you're in for a treat, because these are some of, in my humble opinion, some of the best and brightest people in the field. There are many, but this is certainly a collection of some of our, I think, most beloved and treasured voices in the field of astrology right now. So it's also just a real honor for me to get to host everyone today.

The way that this is going to work is I'm going to bring everyone in. We're going to outline for you the transit of Saturn and Neptune, give you a feel for what the timeline of it looks like. And then I'm going to facilitate a discussion where you get to hear what all of these great astrologers think about this transit, what to watch for, what we might expect, both, personally, collectively, historically. So I think it's a really this will be a really unique opportunity to reflect on this aspect that's coming up.

So at the end of today's discussion, I'm also going to give you more information about each of these astrologers, the kind of work they're doing, how you can get in touch with them. So please do stick around at the end. Or if you have to leave early, you can come back and watch the tail end to find their contact information. Like, man, I just really love how Sam did something, or Becca or Catherine, really. I really resonated with their work. I want to follow them. Be sure that you stick around for that portion or come back to it if you have to leave early, because I'll tell you how you can stay in touch with all of them.

So I also decided, like, last time I introduced every single panelist, read all of their bios, everything. It took like, half an hour. So I'm like, You know what? We'll, we'll just, I'm just going to tell you all who's here, and I'll give you a chance to get to know them a little bit more at the end, most of them, I'm sure you already know, because they're just awesome, prolific, cool people and great astrologers.

But anyway, so on that note, I can see we're up to about 330 people or so here on the live stream. So I'm going to go ahead and bring everyone in. It's going to we're going to look like the Brady Bunch here. There's nine of us total. Hey, everyone. Hello, yeah, it's so good to be back. I feel like, yeah, who knew? I mean, it's just funny, because it's like astrologers. We we have an idea, on an archetypal level, or a thematic level, what's coming with some of these transits, but we're all still very surprised, and it's always novel and interesting to see how they actually play out. That was certainly the feeling I had in hindsight looking back at our 2020 panel. Any thoughts about that? I'd love to hear what you guys think about that in hindsight. Anyone just jump in some of your you might be I'll go.

I mean, I didn't get to review it, but I remember some of the thoughts, and we knew it was going to be heavy. We just didn't know how heavy it was going to be and how world shaping and changing it would be. I think, you know, maybe we learned to hedge our bets a bit rather than just go full full throttle. I think that kind of becomes the conditioning of the astrologer. But, and I think we may do some of that today. I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to go for, you know, all the big, sweeping changes. But we know when Saturn gets involved, along with Pluto, with any of the outer planets, that you know, stuff is going to go down, it's going to be a matter of scale and how.

Yeah, yeah. Well, said that was what I was gonna say too. I felt like I did think it was gonna be very heavy, but I felt myself and others were just trying not to, like, get too hyperbolic into extreme, but it ended up being way more, even more extreme than I was expecting.

Yeah, no, I kind of went full tilt. I like, released a survival guide on this. Yeah, I I definitely kind of called it in the the only, my only regret, is that I kept focusing on the word imprisonment. I kept saying it's about people being imprisoned in the house. I didn't think that extra step of quarantine is the word you should use. But, yeah, I kind of swung over the fences a bit on that one, and it happened to work out. You know, I, I too, still have that conditioning to moderate, you know what you say. But I think when Pluto comes, you know, in the chat, he it's. Gonna be global. It's gonna be extreme.

Yeah, I actually remember using the phrase totally fucked, because that was one of the, you know, during another Saturn Pluto, there had been that Spring Awakening, you know, the musical, and it has that song that I remember saying it in the sense of feeling like you know something is coming, and you know there's a coming together that is needed, you know, to move through it. And it wasn't, it wasn't just totally fucked and good luck, but I do remember that energy and the willingness to really say, as we need to be willing with Saturn, to say, and this is, you know, there's difficulty, there's something to be faced, there's something to be experienced, which I think will be alive today as well.

But the reason I also was really happy to get together is I really felt like what I would call a really secured symbolizing field, where I really felt we were in a space of divination, where the symbols could really speak and with so many different voices, I would that was my favorite panel that I've ever participated in, in astrology, in terms of how much meaning I felt was actually present, and maybe also that transit brought it out in us. You know, the the the portent of it.

Yeah, I wish I could contribute. But actually, I had to sit that one out. I have Pluto conjunct Saturn natally. So all of these things were like, Oh, is that my chart? You know, this idea of like, total imprisonment, or like, We're fucked, or whatever. But no, I had a life threatening pregnancy, and so I was in the NICU, and CAD kindly allowed me to heal from that. And my child's now five and awesome, but with the Saturn Neptune. Interestingly enough, I have family who were born in 1953 who have that.

So I'm thinking about having grown up with people who have this coming transit, and thinking also about all of the people born in the early 90s who have it as well. And like being careful how we talk about what's going to happen, given that people have charts that contain this configuration. So, yeah, it was, it was like, I'm, you know, like, after the fact to be like, I wish I could have been there. But I also was totally there. I just wasn't there, which, that's like, such a signature of Saturn, Pluto No.

Like, yeah, yeah, gosh, yeah. That was That was wild. We ended up moving during the August of 2020 to Minneapolis. And of course, Minneapolis played host to the George Floyd murder. And what I mean like as a city was like right in the collective spotlight. And the neighborhood that I hung hung out in growing up, had been devastated by everything that had happened, and they're still rebuilding. There's artists and wonderful people in Minneapolis in general who are slowly but surely like rebuilding parts of the city and but I mean, it was right in the wake of that, and that was another aspect of that year, at least for me, personally, being from Minnesota, and I can't remember, maybe it was Sam or someone else on the panel who also talked about race relations with the Saturn Pluto dynamic, and that certainly played another role in the 2020, Saturn Pluto experience. Yeah, it's a big year.

Well, let's see here. So what I want to do, for starters, as we now kind of shift gears here to looking at this Saturn Neptune conjunction is, let's first take a look at the timeline. So I'm going to share my screen, and we're going to get real tiny there. So what I want to do, for starters is just outline the process of these two planets coming together.

So you'll notice on the screen that first we have Neptune entering Aries. This is right around March 29 into the 30th that you really see, depending on time zones and everything like that, that Neptune recently entered the sign of Aries, and of course, Saturn's close behind it. The fact that these two planets have really been co present in the same sign for a couple of years, I think, is significant. They've they've sort of been building toward this for a while in the sign of Pisces. Now they're going to meet in Aries, but they have an interesting dance that they're going to do together before the actual conjunction occurs, which we're now in the midst of.

So if we take this back to sort of Saturday, May 24 into the 25th I was at norwac in the atrium, and I was sitting, I think I was sitting right next to gray at the time, if I remember correctly. Anyway, someone said Saturn just moved into Aries like this minute. And so we all threw up like a cheer. Try to, like, welcome Saturn into Aries. But that just. Happened recently.

So if we just kind of track out their movement together, you can see that at this time here, early June, as of the day that we're doing this panel discussion, which is June 1, they're, you know, about a degree and a half apart at the very beginning of Aries, that zero degree Aries marker is something that I hope we might mention along the way today.

But here they are in this new configuration, Saturn, of course, in the sign of Aries in ancient or traditional astrology in its depression or fall. I hope that we can talk about that from a more nuanced and thoughtful perspective, especially so that we can take away any unnecessary anxiety or fear. Because I think once we understand dignities at a little deeper level, there's a lot they really help us think about the archetypes in a deeper, more nuanced way. And doesn't just have to be good or bad. There's a lot to say, for example, about the relationship between Saturn and the sun, who's exalted in Aries that may inform how we're thinking about that dignity category.

It's also not essential that we cling too stubbornly to a dignity category, especially when we're thinking about things on an archetypal level. So we'll try to work with kind of different perspectives today, but as Saturn moves along now, you can see, by June 9, actually, the right around the day that Jupiter will enter cancer, the two planets are now almost exactly right, a degree apart.

That close proximity is going to continue. If I go forward for some weeks, look at how close they are here. By the early part of July, we're talking about, you know, 1516, minutes of separation apart. So that's very, very close, that close proximity will continue as both planets retrograde this summer. And then what's going to happen is Saturn's going to kind of retrograde back into Pisces by early September. Neptune is going to also retrograde back into Pisces by later in October, and then the two planets are going to be within about, like, that's about four degrees, and then they're both going to turn direct before the end of the year.

This is about December. I'm just doing this kind of approximately. I'm not being too exact here, but Neptune will enter Aries again, right here. This is the 26th of January that it switches over, and then shortly after that, we're going to see Saturn entering Aries and following on the heels of Neptune. This is by about the middle of February, 2026 now at this point, there they are like half a degree apart, again, very close, and then their actual conjunction will come through.

This is February 20 of 2026 I would say that between now and then, it's safe to say that the conjunction is playing itself out. Even if we have a little bit of separation in Pisces, we can think of ourselves now, sort of astrologically in the Saturn Neptune conjunction dance. Certainly, I think most of our orbs on this panel would be generous enough to allow for that, and I know Becca's would for sure, because the archetypal background, I think you get up like 15 degrees even. So they've been dancing together from that perspective for a while. Becca can say more about that later, then Saturn will move off.

But their close proximity, to me, is worth, worth noting that they don't get a full like three degrees of separation, which is an orb that I like to use for a while. I mean, it's not until about April that we see the two planets like fully separating from that engagement range of three degrees. And then Saturn's going to be co present with Neptune for a few years, while it spends its time in Aries. So that's the timeline I wanted to lay out.

Now I'm going to stop talking, and I want to let my guests speak to this combination. What I'm going to do, just so you kind of know how the format works, I'm going to do my best to just direct questions about this transit to all of the panelists and make sure that you get to hear from everyone and that we kind of have a round table discussion in that sense, if you don't know these astrologers, Sam Reynolds, very glad that Sam is here. Been working with Sam for a long time. He's been a guest teacher in our speaker series program. Same thing with Jason. Jason Holly, Catherine urban, Rebecca Gordon, my very first astrology teacher and good friend from long ago in New York City, Becca, who's come and taught for my students at Nightlight.

I don't think anyone on this panel hasn't taught for my students at some point, which I really appreciate. Gray Patrick and Jen, all just phenomenal astrologers and human beings. And I'm going to make sure that again, you follow their work and know where to contact them at the end today. But you're talking about people coming from a rich background, traditional, modern, psychological, archetypal. So we're really going to approach this from all the different angles of expertise.

On that note, I because I really appreciate having a some organized way of approaching something like this. I want to start with what is a good way of understanding the combination of Saturn and Neptune in general, when these two planets get together, say it's a square, an opposition, a conjunction, and we can maybe fine tune this as we go. But what kinds of themes tend to manifest with this combination of planets. And I'm going to ask Becca to maybe say something to lead us off, and then we'll just circulate around and have other people add things in as we go. Becca, what do you think? What's a good way of thinking about Saturn and Neptune to get us started?

First of all, thank you so much for hosting this panel, and it's an honor to be here with all of you in terms of a way to approach thinking of these two planetary archetypal principles in relation with each other. They really are opposites in some way, because Neptune is the principle of the transcendent. The sacred, the numinous. It's what is invisible, ineffable, what's subtle. It's very hard to grasp in some ways. And it's it's symbolized by water. It's flowing, it's merging, it's dissolving, permeating. And then we have that in absolute contrast to Saturn, which is this solid reality principle that's concrete, that's foundational, that's structured.

And when these two very you can kind of think of it like bringing water and granite together. And those are not materials that that mix easily, and Saturn often has the quality of blocking or negating the Neptunian and at the same time, Neptune can dissolve and permeate and undermine the Saturnian solidity. So it's this combination of reconciling the ideal and the real, the imaginal, the visionary, the sacred, the the dream, with that hard, material principle of being incarnated in form.

So when those two combine, it often isn't the easiest experience. There are great gifts. There are great blessings to it. But I think in the world transits, what we often see collectively are tendencies towards melancholy and depression and malaise and sadness and grief and anxiety, often non specific. Anxiety, you can't tell where it's coming from. Feelings of doubt, skepticism, kind of like a sharp irony can come through skeptical judgment of belief or of naive optimism.

There can often be a feeling of deceit or hypocrisy that comes through as well breaking the illusion disillusionment. So these are are some of the ways that I think we see this combination come forward and really trying to reconcile between those very opposite principles, where one often feels like it's overcoming the other. So hopefully that helps gets us get us started.

There that does get us started. I want to turn to Jason next, both of you. I think one of the skills that I love, that both of you have, is you have such nice ways of laying out archetypal combinations. Everyone on this panel does, but Jason, what do you think about the combination of Saturn and Neptune? What comes to your mind as the kind of general blend of these two planets comes through, yeah.

I mean, I always like starting with Becca too, because it does kind of just activate it for me and my own body and I, you know, as she was saying, you know, for me, there is a way that, you know, Neptune is, of all the of all the planetary archetypes, to me, the most expansive in its vision, the most you know, capacity to really experience wholeness, or the wholeness of things, and the larger perspectives, the notion of unity consciousness, for instance, whereas Saturn has a job of developing.

The experience of separation and of really building the structures that can operationalize that and has an implementation, a very strong implementation interest, which is not at all inherent to Neptunian process, right? Like Neptune, is just so much of the image, the dream, the possibility, the potentiality, and Saturn has so much of the actuality the limits of form. How are we going to do this? And so when they are in the same situations together, I think that there's frequently in conjunction, a power struggle that goes on about who shall lead in this fusion, and a kind of a working it out maybe, you know, it's like a lot of times, like in experiential work with stelliums and conjunction, you kind of to comb out the planets and let them feel like, what do I what am I about when I'm over here? What is this one about?

But the fusion, really, it's difficult. And so, for instance, a lot of times, in my experience with this Neptune will have an inspiration or a vision. But you know, Saturn with outer planets is tricky, because outer planets, you know, they don't I think many of us use traditional rulerships. I do. I see them as having some affinities with the signs. But if we think about the metaphor of, they are not domiciled, right? They are not domicilable. And Saturn is always building domicile, you know, building houses.

And so Saturn's attempt to sort of domicile, Neptune, or, you know, sort of built, bring it into a structure, often means these ideological programs, whether collectively or individually, where you get the inspiration, and then you're like, now I'm going to turn it into an agenda. It's like, image to agenda. And in Aries you could imagine, you know, I'm not supposed to tell that area. You can imagine a sort of a fight for the agenda.

But at any rate, with the Saturn Neptune, I think that's one of the biggest things. And then there's the disillusionment, because, of course, you can't operationalize utopian notions, right? There's a transientness to the we can't stabilize outer planet energy and human consciousness for any significant amount of time. It will, it will always be. It's not stabilizable in human we can have experiences with it. But Saturn, of course, has a strong stabilization urge, so that's some of the tension that I feel in it. And as always, with tension, they can work creatively, you know, but, but to try to operationalize Neptune is, I think, the trickiest moment, and maybe it's got more to do with infusing Saturnian projects with Neptunian inspirations. But unfortunately, Austin becomes programatization.

Yeah, that's it is like someone in the comments was saying it's a bit like oil and water, like they, they have this funny one question that I have. I'm going to just keep it rolling here. I'm going to direct this one towards Sam. Sam, do you feel that there is any we're talking about these planets as almost like opposites, like the oil and water image, they don't mix? Is there any way that you think that they can or do or will mix that might be easier than we're imagining, just kind of flipping it in the opposite direction. Does anything like that come to your mind?

Yeah, mythologically. I mean, they're both Titans, in a sense. So there's a there's a relatability, I think, that they have with each other. And I think by virtue of their antiquity, their ancient quality, no dealing with the quality of earth and water, right? There's a way in which they can confuse. And I think Saturn can help Neptune, because Saturn forms the formless. You know it F's the ineffable, or will try to so I think there is a way that it can have it. I think someone is saying it cosmic rose a container. Saturn can help form a container for all the different ways in which the liquidity of Neptune evidences itself in dreams and aspirations and ideals and help kind of come to shape them.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm going to pass it around. Let's see what some of the rest of the folks here. Catherine, what do you what do you think about Saturn and Neptune? What comes to your mind about this combination? Oh, you're muted.

Is this better? Can you hear you're good. Okay, great. So riffing off of what Sam was saying, like, how are these two planets similar? And I'm going to kind of dip down. On for a minute here, because I think the way that these two planets sort of do have like a meeting of the minds, is in the disillusionment sense, whereas there's a certain clarity that Saturn brings. And very often it's the clarity of Saturn that we don't always want to receive that clarity from Saturn, but very often, the clarity that Saturn offers does help us, you know, streamline what our what the vision is like with Neptune, Saturn can kind of have that ability to make make real.

So that's kind of something I've been sharing with a lot of my clients. Is like Saturn meeting with Neptune is a way to sort of make that dream real. But very often, that disillusionment has to happen first, where you have to kind of see what isn't working. And it's very often that process of dropping down and seeing sort of what isn't going to contribute or what isn't going to be supportive of that ultimate vision that has to be seen first. But these two together, as I was saying, can say, like, let's, let's make that dream real, but it's very often, first we have to be real with ourselves about what isn't in alignment to get us there.

I love that. Yeah, that question of alignment and of almost like a discerning of what is real or unreal, what is what dreams or visions can be brought into the realm of Saturn, and which are we maybe not being real enough about or something. I think that's really important. And I like that you're saying, like, that process, while creatively constructive, may have an aspect of difficulty, that's part of it, right?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, like, very often, what Saturn is showing us is not what we were hoping to hear, but it's the thing that we needed to Yeah.

I like that. Someone said b said, Saturn builds block by block using Neptune's pouring dreamy cement, a dream coming true, but first get real. Yes, nice, nice contribution there. I want to keep moving around here. Jen, what do you think about Saturn, Neptune?

So I veer towards the historical unless so much about the personal natal chart because I think about world historical events, and in the same week when they conjoined in the early 90s, the Berlin Wall fell in South Africa and did apartheid. So I think of this, borders evaporating, unthinkable changes in societal structure suddenly becoming true. Like Monday demonstrations in Leipzig happening like, can we actually do it? Can we really not live in this socialist dictatorship? Yes, you can.

Saturn Neptune can join suddenly it's it's different. In South Africa, this system of apartheid is ruling people's lives. It structures how people are in their space, and suddenly it's gone like the unimaginable has now become a new order. So I feel like with where we're at here, we're facing that similar kind of like we can hope for a change in the structures of how our bodies are in space together, and it can actually come true now like that, to me, is a really cool concept for where we might be putting our attention in this conversation, but also people listening to the recording of this and and leaning into the idea that, like, how do we want our bodies to be in space together? We can actually do it differently in a in a really structural way in society.

So I always take it to that macro level, and then, as a fun fact, our astrological colleague, Nick Campion was born in 1953 with the Saturn Pluto, or the Saturn Neptune conjunction in his chart and his Book of World horoscopes that informs a lot of our mundane astrology was published a year before they conjoined again in Capricorn. So I just want to anchor that I'm always all about the lineage and trying to anchor us in our source texts, as well as our colleagues who have these placements that can help us understand, hey, if we're thinking about what's going to happen when Saturn, conjunction, Neptune, literally, the person that has given us the book of all of the charts has it in his own natal chart. So that's where I kind of go with these things.

I love that it reminds me. I mean, I watched a couple hours of the like, eight hours that Nick and Chris did on the astrology podcast about Saturn Neptune, which was great, but I have to watch the rest of it at some point. But one thing that I they made mention of was how things that are slightly more in tan. Tangible can become more tangible when Neptune and Saturn meet. Here we have the human made borders of countries, something sort of intangible, and their astrological signatures being mapped out and made sort of real and relatively concrete in Nick's work, and he's born with that signature. So I just love that Jen brought that up. That was, I didn't know that. And that is really, really cool. Patrick, what are you? What have you been thinking about? Saturn? Neptune? Oh, you're muted. I

well as a as a general combination, you know, I kind of see it in that as sort of like a dream crusher or dream Realizer, and it's hard to know which one you know means in the particular context that it happens in. I think in some ways, in some ways, I kind of, I don't really like Neptune a lot from the I almost sort of like to take sat inside i I'm, in some ways, I'm kind of uncomfortable with the way that Neptune can just represent things that are not necessarily grounded in reason and logic. It is that kind of ineffable mystery and, and I feel like Neptune does pose that challenge to Saturn as the planet, sort of representing, I guess, kind of lived reality. And Neptune sort of comes in, kind of goes well, what is reality?

And, but there is something really great though I think that can happen, because even though Saturn Neptune can can represent sort of crisis of faith and and mourning the loss of old orders, sometimes it's good when borders can be redrawn, and sometimes it is good when you you can imagine a new world and bring it about. So I think there's something to be said for not getting too attached to the borders and rules and structures that Saturn has set up. There is sort of an opportunity to remake it, but it does require going through that kind of dark night of the soul type experience, which is unpleasant.

Yeah, absolutely, yeah. I mean, one of the things that I've been thinking about going back to Becca, who mentioned melancholy, and there's that part of Saturn making something maybe intangible or ineffable, more concrete or something like that. But then the other thing is that I think about is that Saturn was a planet in ancient astrology, when ancient astrologers were linking conditions of temperament to planets that the melancholic temperament was associated with Saturn, and when Saturn and Neptune get together, sometimes I've used the phrase like divine discontent.

There's some feeling that nothing in this world is satisfactory. And it's like a longing for something more than what this world can provide. And it's so funny to me how that I feel like I was reading the biography of Jerry Garcia recently, and he described that fueling his creativity. But you can imagine, and I know this has been the case for me at different times of my life, and it's the exact same quality that can fuel depression, anxiety, isolating ourselves from others.

So it's just a fine line between how we experience that Saturn Neptune dimension, and does it get channeled in a creative direction, or does it become because melancholics, historically, were also associated with very creative spirits too, right? So it's just fascinating to think about that, and also it comes to my mind as I'm listening to you guys speak, is the really strange fact that when Neptune was first discovered, it was discovered in a conjunction with Saturn. It's almost as though, and I'm not the first person to say this, which is almost as though the two needed to be together for us to see Neptune, or something like that. I've heard people say that I resonate with that a lot. I want to shift gears to Rebecca, what do you think about this? How have you been approaching this in your work? Or how have you been thinking about it?

Well, first of all, again, I want to just thank you, Adam, for bringing us together here, and the imagery that keeps coming to mind is that famous Dali painting of the melting clocks. I mean literally, Saturn time melting of Neptune. So I think with my clients and everything, it's clear that there is an old template of reality. That is melting. There is not there's something that's not working. There's a previous structure that is being dissolved, and people are feeling that there's a lot of fear around that.

I think we have to speak into that with our clients often, and just mirror that back and let them know, and let everyone know that they're not alone in those feelings of the previous delineation, also of self. I mean, if we talk about, you know, if we want to move into Aries, this delineation of self, of who am I, and the construct of self is dissolving. So it's, I think it's a bit scary. It brings up fear for sure, when Neptune does its thing to Saturn, you know, and then when Saturn does its thing to Neptune, I've seen that very often in my clients, too.

People are in this place of vision and building a new business and all of this work to find out that somebody else has that domain name Saturn kicks in. And, you know, they had, somebody else has a trademarked and so there's a lot of real, harsh Saturn realities that come into the vision of Neptune. And to me, an antidote is to really always be letting them live together in the same soup, like, don't do Neptune without inviting Saturn to the party, because Saturn will then kick us in the ass, you know. Or don't do don't do Neptune without inviting Saturn. Don't do Saturn without inviting Neptune.

They each so as soon as we create a structure, we have to say, Okay, where's the release valve in this where's the room for liminality? Where's the space for the I don't know. I don't think we can be building now with Saturn Neptune, without those limit liminal spaces and questioning and having a healthy degree of curiosity. And then again, I don't think we can be dreaming without having a sense of, do we have all the ducks in a row?

Love that, yeah, there's, it's really interesting to me that I was reading something recently, and it was talking about how it was, it was a Buddhist teacher, and it was just, I don't even remember. I think it was a clip that I heard from a talk somewhere, and he was talking about how one of the things that some people coming from the west have trouble with when they first encounter Buddhist teachings is the positivistic way that we tend to interpret history and pain and suffering. Well, it all has a hidden meaning. You just can't see it yet. Well, it all has a teleology of purpose. It's just bigger than we can understand, and you have to have faith in that.

And so you think in Buddhism, there's a value just sort of letting go of the need for that positivistic interpretation and just sort of squaring up to pain and suffering and saying there needs to be no explanation for its existence, it just is. I can't help listening to Rebecca speak, if that's part of that liminal space too, that allowing these two to coexist. So for some I know for myself, at different points in my life, the not being able to say that suffering ultimately has this hidden purpose, this that there's a redemptive storyline, is like a conceptual refuge. And taking that away for me would have been very depressing, right?

So it's interesting how a combination like this could temporarily take away that sense of redemptive meaning and purpose behind all of reality. People experience crises of faith, sometimes with Saturn and Neptune. And yet, one of the things that I've noticed in my life and my client's life is, if you sit with that long enough, something is still there, there's and it, and then maybe we stand those crises of faith, the dark night of the soul. I think Patrick might have mentioned that phrase. Something comes out of it that no, it can be just as buoyant within us, but it doesn't necessarily need the conceptual refuge of like a redemptive, overarching storyline. Does that make sense? Yes. Yeah, I would like gray to say something so that we've gotten to hear a little bit from everyone before we keep going. What do you think about this one? Gray, yeah,

what you're just saying about suffering is definitely one of the things that I think about related to these two, because we do experience this, this dark night of the soul, collectively. And as we've been talking about, there are a lot of oppositional meanings inherent in these two. There are some ways that they do go together, in terms of being these two outermost planets, and as you mentioned, Saturn always being connected with me. Elencalic, which also opens access to the imaginal and the way Saturn really brings you down into things, but then can connect you up to the highest realms, because it's closest to the divine.

And certainly that's also where Neptune can come in at the same time. But you know, with that dark night of the soul, it really just brings up the feeling of uncertainty. I think it's just really one of the things that becomes the thing that we have to really traverse during these time periods. But as far as you're just saying, facing that uncertainty, facing that suffering and difficulty, it also opens up faith, and it helps forge faith, and it helps open us up to the mystery, because both of these plans have so much to do with actual reality, as well as deception. Saturn also traditionally goes with deception.

And although everyone likes to talk about Neptune being illusion and Neptune being delusion, we can be completely delusionary with our Saturn. And we think we have this form of reality. We think we have the way things are. And you know, like seeing is believing in a way, whereas Neptune is making us realize everything that we don't perceive with that limited framework of reality we have. And so there can be these great awakenings and great revelations at the same time, while at the same time, people are being swept up into things that are not there.

But there's real epiphanies. There's so many instances, some of the most famous epiphanies or revelations in human history that have lined up exactly with these alignments. And there's something Joan Didion wrote once about. You know, we tell ourselves stories. We love to tell our tell ourselves stories, but sometimes we start to question the premises of all of our of the stories we've been telling ourselves. And so that process just really, it just has to happen during these Saturn Neptune times.

And so it also, though, creates the opportunity to let go of the way things have been and connect more with what you truly want to create and do with your life. And that's also the the difficulty, because, as you said, when that time when they formed that conjunction, when you discovered them, about a year before that, in 1845 when they were both in Aquarius, is when the United States, someone first wrote and started talking about the term manifest destiny, and that's the other side of it is like, you know, we want to build our dream, but we can also, we want to construct these utopian ideals, but we can also, then with Saturn, and I guess it's also Neptune, start trying to enforce our ideals on other people and Start persecuting people, because there's also inquisitions and witch hunts throughout history with this lineup.

Yeah, yeah, that's such an important point, if we kind of reverse what I was saying a moment ago, about almost like when there's a crisis of faith or there's a sense of doubt, and maybe you just can't hold this tightly to some kind of redemptive meaning or storyline that's within or behind everything. The opposite can be true where there's a redemptive storyline that you cling to with an almost authoritarian severity or extreme quality, this will save everyone or something like that. Yeah, I'll let you guys say more about these things.

I want to shift gears now to considering what it might mean that these two planets are coming together in the sign of Aries. Feel free as I go through the panel again here and kind of go around the circle to say whatever comes to your mind about whether it's zero Aries or the early degrees of Aries, or if it's the sign in general, if you want to touch on the dignity of Saturn in particular, anything's open.

I'll start off by saying that the experience that I've shared on my YouTube channel that I had in the late 90s when Saturn was in Aries. Now it was in my 12th house, so I think the location in your chart is going to matter when you're thinking about this historically. I don't want everyone to think that you have to go looking for this kind of story specifically. But I was in high school, I had moved to a new town, and I went through about a year and a half of being pretty, pretty severely bullied at my high school.

And that experience has always felt very much like Saturn and Aries to me during that time. Of course, it was square to my son during that period as well. So, you know, some of that goes into it, but, but one of the things that I've taken away from that period was I worked very hard to try to figure out, first of all, how to hide my. Self, right? Or then, well, that I don't maybe that's not working. How do I stand up to these people? Well, that's not working.

And then I remember a point that came where I said, Why am I trying to do any of this? And it was almost as though this new intention or vision for who I might be entered my life, and it involved me leaving high school and going to a community college where I started studying philosophy and just left the whole scene and the struggle of that scene behind and kind of blazed my own trail. And that choice to like, separate myself and go, you know, was really rewarded at community college. There were people in their 20s, sometimes older going back to school, no one was jerky, like it wasn't like high school anymore, you know. And I got to study something that was meaningful to me, and I got to leave behind the experience of being bullied.

But it really took this moment of realizing that this battle was not necessary for me to fight. You know, it was like setting it aside. So I've, shared that story on my channel a few times in the past few weeks as a way of talking about Saturn in Aries. So I'll mention that for starters. But I really I can't wait to hear what you all think about the combination of Saturn and Neptune in the sign of Aries, and what the sign quality might bring to this experience of the next year.

Let's I'm going to start with Sam this time. What do you think, Sam?

It's funny that you would start with me, because I think I'm pretty certain I'm the only person on this panel who's having a Saturn Return with Saturn and Aries. Okay, I think I can say that. So I have thought a lot about this is my second Saturn Return. Just to be clear, I have thought a lot about Saturn in Aries, and one of the things I can share, and this is why I was smiling so much during your story, Adam, Saturn in Aries is learning how to use have the correct use of power, because Saturn in Aries is thinking more about might as right. It's looking at dimensions of authority and structure Saturn through the prism of Mars.

And so what I always say about planets in their putative fall, because, you know, in the traditional sense, and you mentioned that earlier that we talked about things related to being in fall, I would say, rather than thinking like, Oh, my Saturn, because I used to think that my Saturn is fucked up from the floor up, I guess, and it's not, I think it's just a Saturn that's called toward a different way of being, and that's how I think about fallen planets. I think about fallen planets as called to go along there a different way, which you found by going to community college.

But I also say that the Saturn in Aries has to remember, and I think this is true for every planet and fall, has to remember the graces of its exaltation. So rather than thinking that might is right, it has to build more of a consensual reality, as it does when it's in Libra and thinking that powers to be shared, shout, powers to be understood and worked on in terms of collaboration, and the more that one has that level of intention related to it, I think we have a better experience of Saturn in Aries. I definitely feel like I became a better teacher once I realized that because, you know, I used to work with quote, unquote. And I hate to use this term, but people know what I'm talking about, at risk youth in the Bronx, when I lived in New York, and I was one of those teachers with the Saturn Aries, it's like, well, I have my degree. Like, if you want to fuck around and find out, go ahead.

And that was, that was the misapplication and misunderstanding of Saturn and Aries. But the more that I started talking with them and saying, like, Okay, what do you want to learn and what, what are you willing to do in order to learn it in terms of creating the environment, the more that I started thinking about collaboratively, rather than like, Okay, if you want to act up today, then you know, I'm either going To kick you out or, you know, ignore you. I started thinking about, Well, you said you wanted to learn this and that you were willing to behave this particular way. I had a whole better experience. And so did they. They actually became much more collaborative related to their learning.

So I learned something related to my Saturn and Aries, which is not, you know might mix, right? Or that one can rely on titular power. It's more so understanding that real sense of connection. So that's how I would think about the Saturn in Aries.

I love that Catherine. What are what are you thinking about when it comes to combining these two planets in the sign of Aries?

Oh my gosh, so much. The thing that comes to mind most immediately in my mind, I'm going to kind of veer off a little bit here, is that, like I think about the ideals of punk rock, I think of Aries as being a sign that's very like against the grain contrarian. And like provocative and as I've contemplated a lot in the last year, what it means for Neptune to be in Aries, and just like what the collective allure and Infatuation is, I see like the punk ideals of DIY going against the grain, just like anti system, anti control, those things becoming more attractive to people as we think about the divine discontent of the Saturn Neptune conjunction occurring and a lot of what we envisioned for ourselves sort of eroding away, like I know a lot of there's a lot of millennial grief out there around having to sort of re envision the lives we envision for ourselves and the things that we thought we would have at this point in our lives, and having to mourn that.

And what Aries offers is the liberation. What you guys are all saying is like, No, we don't have to follow that same path. We don't have to follow that rule book because, in fact, the rules don't apply anymore. In fact, this rule book is useless to us. So I think there's something really liberating about authenticity and experimentation. So that's really what's on the top of my mind right now, is like, Okay, if this isn't working, if the system isn't working for you, it's time to get creative. It's time to DIY.

I love that. Catherine reminds me of something that always stuck with me in a Liz green text I read years ago, and I can't remember which one it was. I've read so many of her books. I'm sure you all have too. But she said one of the things people always think about Aries in terms of sort of muscular themes, you know, like Sporty Spice or jockey whatever, like you know the people who play sports or but she said one of the most underestimated qualities of this sign is its inventiveness. It can be this brilliant sign of innovation, and innovation is closely tied, she said, to rebellion like meaningful I meaningful flourishings of creative activity will have a way of naturally pressing against established forms, traditions, authorities.

And so the clash with authority that's very common in the sign of Aries has to do with the natural way in which new things often press against old. And she compared it to, like the Cenex and Puer and psychology and stuff like that. Always thought that was brilliant. So I just really appreciate you bringing out that particular angle that's that's really nice.

Yeah, my pleasure. I can just add with punk too. It came out the last time Neptune was in a fire sign, like, right when it came in early 70s, and there was Saturn, right there a Saturn Neptune opposition.

So I'm even thinking, to me, I'm thinking about some of the bands that I was into in the late 90s, like Blink 182 was one of them. They kind of just came up in my head while you were talking. But yeah, that's, I love that connection. That's really great. Well, that was another Saturn Neptune one. Was it? Okay? Yeah, that was, it would have been the square, then the something like that.

Let's see here, 89 Yeah, that was 89 they came out of 1989 blink 182, did, yeah, they weren't popular. They weren't like mainstream until like, the sextile or the Trine, but yeah, they came out in 89 with the conjunction.

Oh, that makes total sense. See, I was only catching on to them in high school with whatever that big album was that came out. But doesn't surprise me that they had a background that's tied to something like this, for sure. I want to jump around and what else can we say about this pairing in the sign of Aries? Jason, what comes to your mind?

Well, one of the things that is really there for me is I, you know, one of the things I don't think we speak of with Aries very much, though, I think it's the most intensely vulnerable sign, and Mars also a very vulnerable planet, like the vulnerability of being a separate self, you know, it's following Pisces and this experience of merger, and now you the infant has been detached from the womb. You know, there is a and it's very vulnerable to put yourself out there. And it's very vulnerable to be authentic. What Catherine. I mean, it's very vulnerable to be punk actually. You know, these, it takes a lot and, and I think that's one of the things that I really feel in this, is the opportunity of this really early and Aries conjunction, to really be a little bit with that.

And I just want to share a mythic image that is. Air for me with this that is related to Pisces and the Aries and Neptune, you know, from the Odyssey. And you know the Odyssey is a great study to understand Neptune, right. Poseidon is the one who keeps him at sea. Every story in The Odyssey can speak to Neptunian process, the sirens, the sorceresses, the you know, all of these different moments. And, you know, Odysseus has a mercurial quality, for sure, but also a Saturnian quality, especially at this point in his life. And he is very he's, he's a veteran, right? He is a Saturn in Aries, right? He's a veteran. He's, he's on his way back from a from a war, and a war, by the way, that everybody at the end is like, what have we done? We've destroyed everything, right?

The Iliad, the first word of the Iliad is rage, and it's an age of Aries text, you know. So it tells us something about the situation of being a separate self, and how do I deal with, you know, all the authentic things in me, but also, I'm part of a society. I'm part of sociality, and how do I do that? That's to me, the Saturn Aries Libra, fall, exaltation question like, how do you do that? How do you honor you and also make it work in civilization? Because that's where we're living.

And so the story that comes to mind is when Odysseus, this is 13 years into being away from home and and he crashes on to Calypsos Island. And this guy's always crashing onto islands, you know, and, and I love the way it's described, because he's covered in, like, crust from the ocean. It's very Saturnian imagery, like, you know, he's all crusty and a mess. And he's on Calypsos Island, right? Where she's this goddess, this nymph, you know, and, and then he stays, he keeps him there for seven years of Saturn, you know, that's that should cue us to Saturn. Also, she keeps him there for seven years.

And, I think, and she can be argued to be a Neptunian archetype, right? Her Island is in the furthest it's right in the center of the sea, like it's as far from everything else as it could be. And she keeps offering him immortality if he'll stay right. And that's that seductive thing from Neptune, you know, you know stay and you can live forever. You know you don't have to deal with it. But what, what happens on the island is that at night, they are described as having Raphael's love making. He's experiencing altered states of consciousness during the day. He just sits on the beach and cries for home the whole time like that's all he does for seven years.

And you know, one of the ways that I think about that story often is this soldier who needs seven years of, like, trauma therapy, seven years of grieving and just fucking grieving. Like, that's enough, like what you were saying earlier, it is enough to just be in our experience and to really experience the disillusionment. I mean, the Trojan War was a disaster everybody. There was not any kind of redeeming feature to that war, and that's, that's the point of that war, from my perspective.

But, you know, there is a way that he needs to do that process. And what an amazing thing to do at the beginning of Aries like to actually begin in that like, that's going to really change Saturn's movement through the sign is to have that initiation, right, to really be in that experience and again, not to turn it into like, Now, I know, and now I'm going to do the thing, you know, even those things that have happened, like apartheid, like endings, those types of things, it's interesting, right? Particularly the Berlin Wall. It's not like that was a strategically Saturnian, planned moment that was a reveling of instinct like Neptune is really as much as it is intuition. It's also instinct. Poseidon was an instinctual God. People are always not knowing why they're connect.

You know, where's the mythic connection between Neptune and and the myths? The connection, for me is the disowned instinctual, because Poseidon is always so angry, but it's because there's all this instinctual energy, and Aries is very instinctual. So for Saturn to get to hang out with that, to be reminded of that, and then to be able to move on, right, he's he leaves the island refreshed from that experience. And there's some different things, so I keep seeing it, and by the way, he arrives, right?

You know, I always think the first couple of degrees of Aries, you're still wet with Pisces. It takes a while to dry out, like the Satur fuckeration, you know, it's just like, you know, and we're also saturated with Pisces, so it takes a while to burn that off. Seven years will do. But, you know, we have, like, what, I guess, a year and a half, really, in this or seven years, probably from that bigger orb. But anyhow, that's, that's the story I keep feeling that has such initiatory qualities in it.

Jason, I love that. It makes me think a little bit about, I don't remember which. Group of people this was but I remember reading about this when I was really getting interested in different indigenous healing. And I use the word shamanic. It's kind of a word that gets tossed around a lot, but when I was reading about these traditions, and I remember reading about one that initiated young boys by giving them a resemblance a wound on their thigh that was supposed to sort of represent, like a womb, and the bleeding of this wound like the thing that's very natural that the young women would experience in their menstruation cycle. I It's a heavy it's a weighty and complicated topic, but this is a masculine sign in ancient astrology. I think of gender as something that's fluid, obviously, and something that anyone can have an experience of regardless of orientation or anything like that.

But when I think about Aries and that initiation you were just mentioning, I also, I also can't help but think of what kinds of initiations a culture that is, at times, just like overly saturated with machismo and the kind of masculine energy run amok, or what some people in the past couple of years have called toxic masculinity. And I think about like, is there as a young man who went through ayahuasca experiences that really helped put me on a path of healing and sobriety and just really changed my heart, and that was from an indigenous tradition. I was really fortunate to take part of that, but it really opened my heart center as a man, quote, unquote.

And so I can't, I can't help but wonder, when you're mentioning initiation, what kinds of initiations may exist for a broken or wounded masculine energy on the planet? Something that comes to my mind, if anyone wants to run with that, when it when I come to you, please do but it's just something that naturally came up as you were talking.

Let's see here. I also along that line, by the way, as I'm just tallying up my notes here, I know that while Neptune was in Aries, we had the Civil War began. That's something that we haven't touched I don't know if we've touched on that yet, but that that did happen. Of course, when Pluto was in Aquarius, we had American and French Revolution. So some of the outer planetary alignments right now speak to divisiveness. Maybe we're not going to repeat massive wars, hopefully not right, but at the very least, ideological divisions and battles taking place in new or different arenas are present. We can see and feel that.

So I want to make sure we speak to some of those themes of like war and battle and like, how does that play a role as well? So anyway, I'm just thinking out loud here. Becca, I'd love to scoot back over to you and hear your thoughts about these two planets eating in the sign of Aries. And if there's anything that comes to your mind about that, sure.

So Well, I wanted to loop back because there's been a couple references to the the wider orb of influence that I work with based on the orbs that Richard Tarnas uses in cosmos and psyche. And for a conjunction, he was really looking at a 15 degree orb. And that makes a transit like this one Saturn Neptune conjunction last about three years. So 15 degree orb would have the Saturn Neptune conjunction start in March of 2024 and then go through May of 2027 and so we really do see about equal a little bit more time in Aries, but kind of really this moving back and forth between the two signs.

And it's also interesting that Saturn and Neptune have been co present in Pisces for so long, and then will continue to be co present in Aries for so long. I think it's about five years total. And so there really is this kind of dipping back and forth between these two signs. And I love the imagery, Jason that you brought up, of kind of washing up on the shore and drying out and then getting pulled back under again.

And I think that overall, Saturn Neptune can have that disorienting quality too, of where you can sometimes feel like you're drowning. And then you you grab on to something and something that feels solid, that feels real, and kind of come up for air, to dry out, to find an orientation, to move forward, which I think the quality of Aries carries the you. Jason, you also mentioned initiation, like this kind of taking action moving forward and then getting pulled back in again.

And Adam, when you brought up the relationship to war. So both world wars started under Saturn Pluto, hard alignments, and interestingly, they both ended under Saturn Neptune hard alignments, and I think that that speaks to some of the quality of demoralization and disillusionment that can come forward after a long period of suffering, and when we went through the covid 19 pandemic that was so intense under the Saturn Pluto conjunction, I kept thinking, you know, there was such an impulse to get back to normal. Remember, we kept hearing that so much, let's get back to normal, to kind of get out of what had been such a radical shift during that time, and the feeling I kept having looking forward to this Saturn Neptune conjunction was this is when the grieving is really going to come home for what's happened to us during the pandemic.

But even in the years prior to that, that there may be this collective grief coming forward that really needs to be felt, but also might break a lot of people, and that I think we are already seeing and will continue to see A lot of crises involving mental health, and that the battle, in some ways, has shifted inward. That's not to say that there isn't intense loss and destruction and warfare going on externally, but that's that's also taking place internally, and I think that's part of the the reconciliation that we're being asked to do.

And maybe while I'm talking about grieving, I was wondering about saving this for later, but I pulled a quote that I wanted to share today from one of my teachers, Joanna Macy, who's a Buddhist and eco philosopher, and she's in she's 96 now. She's born with a Saturn Neptune Trine, and so I think she's someone who really speaks to how to live this combination well. And so she said, we are capable of suffering with our world, and that is the true meaning of compassion. It enables us to recognize our profound interconnectedness with all beings. Don't ever apologize for crying, for the trees burning in the Amazon or over the waters polluted from the mines and the Rockies. Don't apologize for the sorrow, grief and rage you feel. It is a measure of your humanity and your maturity. It is a measure of your open heart, and as your heart breaks open, there will be room for the world to heal. That is what is happening as we see people honestly confronting the sorrows of our time. So I just wanted to share that as someone from someone who was born with Saturn Neptune, but I think speaks to a lot of the themes that we're discussing here, regard regarding grief, sorrow and rage as well.

Yeah, that that's really beautiful, and it makes me wonder. As you were speaking Becca, I kept thinking about the strong air signatures that are present. You know, with Pluto and Aquarius Uranus moving into Gemini, sometimes there's, I think, I think a lot about some of the ancient elemental theory that pitted water and air as opposites. And one of the reasons for that is that air was sort of thought of as water, invisible water in the sky that will occasionally condense and then fall down to earth.

And it's my experience personally that I see myself sometimes using my phone and technology and getting so absorbed in these realms of the mind that are very stimulating, but sometimes really depleting and exhausting, and then I'll crash and that air will crash down into my body as emotions that I've been avoiding through my phone for Three days. You know, you know what I mean. I can't help but think that it might be helpful to have Saturn and Neptune in Aries as so much air is rising up and has to inevitably burst back down to instinctual, emotional realities, embodied. Realities, and that Saturn Neptune and Aries might be more courageous or bold or direct in sort of facing some of those unprocessed emotions or the tendency to dissociate.

It's i One of the things I love about Aries. My wife has three planets in Aries, so she's kind of like my prime example of like Aries energy in my life is there's just a willingness to be really direct and square up to things when they're difficult and it's like, let's just be real and deal with this. So anyway, thank you. That was a really, really nice share. I really appreciate that. I'm going to swing around to Rebecca. Rebecca, what are you thinking about these two coming together in Aries in particular. Oh, you're muted.

Sorry. Okay, can you all hear me now? Okay, great. So what comes to mind first is the need for a new myth. I mean, Aries, as we can look at as the ultimate hero's journey, and especially Saturn and Neptune having hit the zero point, it's like smash that hard reset button. What is our humanity actually here to do in the wake of AI exponentially evolving and all these things, we're sort of forced to face the question of, what is hu what is what is our humanity here for what is our Aries instinct?

And I have a feeling that it's no mistake you know these of course, Saturn and Neptune can join in Aries pointing a finger at the individual and will at the same time. We're faced with this technology that seems to be replicating in many ways, parts of it, and I think it's just, it's interesting to look at this, these two tracks happening because we are carving out and delineating what is the value of our human instinct and our will right now, and creating a new myth, I think that's the big question.

Currently, we're going to have to create a new myth of what, what is, what are humans here for on this planet? What is our purpose? And coming back to that zero point in Aries asking Saturn and Neptune the question, and I mean, and especially your story, Adam, like you had all of the rites of passage and the hero's journey, that separation and everything, going to the college and starting a new life. So it's like it's a true hero's journey for humanity now and and both Saturn and Neptune are strangers in a strange land in Aries, like neither one is so comfortable in the terrain. And so it's like, yeah, we all might be sort of uncomfortable, uncomfortable for a while. And like, Hmm, you know, also I'm thinking about Sure, the word the fall and everything of Saturn being an Aries being an exaltation in Libra. What does that mean? I mean, I take the word fall literally. I think that there has to be a fall from grace in some way, a fall from what we thought this was all about. We have to fall and somehow peel ourselves off the floor and find a new meaning. So that's what comes to mind.

And then, um, I think I'm thinking about also, of course, Descartes, you know, I'm not, not the biggest Cartesian fan, but, you know, that's I think, therefore I am, and that kind of sums up Aries. So I had to just peek into his chart last night, and like, sure enough, this guy, Descartes, has, like, Saturn. I mean, no, he has Sun, Mercury, Jupiter, Uranus and Pluto, all in Aries, right? And I think we're coming into with both of them in Aries, this urge to kind of try to master the will and master the mind and the cult of the individual, self hood, you know, kind of piggybacking on what Catherine was saying, this also going into somebody's typing and what Catherine was saying about the punk rockness of it all. I mean, I absolutely agree with that.

But there's also kind of, you have to be sort of unrealistic, too, in that, like Saturn, it starts off with Saturn in Aries, and then Saturn leaves, and then we just got Neptune in Aries. So I have a feeling that in the beginning of this transit, we're faced with more restrictions, and in a way, those dissolve, and the vision and the dream of the journey takes up more space over the next 14 years. So yeah, that was a lot of pieces, but these are things I've just been thinking about. So yeah, I mean coming back to I guess that the. Name of what is our new myth of being human, what is the purpose of our humanity? And coming back to the will, instinct we've been taught most of our lives to scrape away our instinct and the programming of our whole system has been ultimately follow the rules, do as you're told, and instinct Aries is just the opposite of trusting that will something that is unique to each person.

Thank you. That was really nice. I really appreciate that perspective you were mentioning. You were kind of talking about AI a little bit, and the I am Ness, it seems like there's we're we're on a path to have a meaningful dialog about whether or not optimization of our humanity is as beneficial as our humanity. That feels like very Pluto and Aquarius in the background. So it's it, to me, it feels a little reassuring that we have a sign that's like I exist, and therefore that's good enough. I feel like Aries kind of holds that torch of like I am and doesn't need to be anything more complicated than that. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic about what Aries can provide in the midst of such a huge push to optimize everything about our humanity and Pluto and Aquarius, I don't also mean to underestimate the positive potential, right of what Pluto and Aquarius can do for us, like French and American Revolutions, you know, maybe democracy instead of like probably a lot of us would say that was a pretty good development, in a lot of ways, right? So it's just interesting to think about what a double edged sword progress can can be when also trying to just accept and like love our own humanity.

Yeah, I have to say, I absolutely agree, like, thank goodness that we have something Saturn and Neptune holding it down in Aries. Well, well, Pluto is an Aquarius and and also, just thinking about, like looking at this in contrast to what happened in 1989 when they were conjunct in Capricorn, when, you know the Berlin Wall is coming down, we're carving out land, and we're saying, Okay, we're moving from Communism to democracy, right? It's a Capricorn structural alignment. But this is not structure itself. That was like, where do we place the boundaries? We're opening those up, dissolving them. Now it's the same thing, but it's about selfhood instead of Capricorn.

That was, it's funny, Rebecca, as you're saying that I just an Instagram ad popped up last night that was like, download this app, pick a song, take a video of yourself and speak, and it will transform you into a pop star singing this song, and it'll use your voice and your image. And I was like, I mean, first of all, that's crazy that that exists. And I'm kind of blown away by that. And then, in another way, I'm just, like, super creeped out. You know, I think it was like I was, I was scrolling through x or twitter whatever, yesterday, and I think Chris Brennan had posted something like, How's everybody doing with Saturn Neptune? And it was like this video of all of these AI characters talking about how cooked we are because no one's real anymore. I thought that was pretty funny. Anyway. Okay, I'd like to hear let's go to Jen. What are you thinking about with Aries as this signed signature of Saturn and Neptune,

it definitely resonate with what Sam and Rebecca have shared so far, and everyone here, honestly, and thank you, Becca, also for your transmission, because that really brings up some powerful emotions that I think have to be present when we're talking about this. The zero Aries point is going to affect the whole world, this idea that we are separate and that we have, as you said, Adam nation states is a total fiction. So the fall of the Berlin Wall, the last time they conjoined, and the end of apartheid, and this idea of the world structure opening up into globalization and the concept of maybe a possible post Westphalian order, that was what was got put in place in the 1600s after the 30 Years War. We got this idea of national sovereignty as we move into this next phase, we're going to have to think about what it means to be a connected community and all of the United States action.

And actually, the President of the United States put tariffs into place when Saturn was still in what's called the bounds of Pisces at the end of the sign, when Saturn was like setting its own terms, but together with the punk rock elements that Catherine mentioned and some of the authenticity and questioning of authority that Rebecca pulled up, it's like when Saturn's in Aries. I think of all Saturn in fire signs as being questioning of authority. You can call yourself president, but if you're not acting presidential, that fire Saturn does not. Care. So it's the next phase of Saturn dipping into Aries, just for now, is just to say we're going to be able to speak truth to power. We're going to question that authority. We're going to have the the like, the resolve to be able to do that, especially when Jupiter gets some strength.

Because at the very beginning of Aries, Jupiter has some say so over what that Saturn can do. And when Saturn dips back into Pisces, that's going to be some of that thing that I think Rebecca spoke to of, like, oh, but we're going to be clamped down again, because Saturn's going to have a lot more power to set the terms once more. But with the full ingress of Saturn back into areas, I think that's when we're really going to be able to mount saying, No, like you call yourself that you have this authority. Yeah, you got the job, but you're not doing the job. Do the job, or we're going to not care and pay attention or comply, right?

So I feel like that has a lot to do with within when it's on the world point, it's not just a US centric story, it's everywhere. Anybody who's trying to exercise authority without actually being a servant leader is going to get it, because people are going to say, we've had enough, like you have the title, but you're not doing the work. You have to do the work, and then we'll give you the respect, right? So I feel like that's a lot of what we're going to be seeing going forward with the whole world, and you have to think of it that way, that it is going to be everyone, not just, you know, a special story with certain alignments that have patterns repeating. The zero Aries point is everyone, right? It's the whole humanity.

And I think maybe also what you said, Adam, with your story about the AI pop stars, like, yeah, like, what does it mean to be human? That's a question for every human to be pondering. It's actually inescapable at this point, whereas, like, when post modernism was really rooting down in the last Saturn Neptune conjunction. It was like, you could still be living in modernism, or post modernism, maybe, if you had access to universities where that was the lingo that was going on. And and then you go out to some rural place and it's like, no, there's still, like, definite modernism here. And so now all of those myths are evaporating and changing.

So, yeah, yeah, that was really well said. I think of Liz Green's. There's a section in one of my favorite books by her called the astrology of fate, where she there's a chapter called the myths of the zodiac. And when she talks about Aries, she talks about the confrontation with tyrannical authority figure in the story of Jason and the Golden Fleece. And at the end of the story, the downfall of Jason is that even though he's overcome this tyrant, he comes to resemble the tyrant that came before him. And so I think the servant leadership thing is super important.

I was looking at Neptune and Aries in terms of, oh my gosh, no, I'm gonna forget Gandhi, and just thinking about passive resistance. And how do you resist something? How do you oust, think, structures or people from power that are corrupt without getting drunk on the power that's needed to do that work something that obviously came up during the periods of the French and American Revolution as well, where there's like, this revolutionary, heroic quality, and then there's this dark side, like, what was the name of the French guy who was the leader that kind of, he became sort of a tyrant. Anyone remember his name?

Robespierre? Yeah, that's right, yeah.

Anyway, that comes to my mind. It's just like, I always think of Star Wars, you know, like, there's a Jedi way of handling Darth Vader, like, how do we access that? That's that. I think that's going to be super important. But the other thing that's fascinating to me is, I think one of the reasons we can think about Saturn in its fall, in the sign of Aries, is, you know, this is the sun sign. And there's that dichotomy between the sun's sign and Saturn sign in the zodiac, Saturn's exaltation and the sun's exaltation in the zodiac.

And we it's not surprising that Saturn in the sun's sign will sometimes correspond to the downfall of solar figures or central figures of authority, even like Neptune entering Aries and the Pope is the Pope has passed away and a new pope comes in, or Saturn and Neptune crossing this threshold into Aries. And was it cancer that Joe Biden was diagnosed with? Yes, yes. Like that. Like those transitions of who are our leaders, or the weakening or downfall of certain like leaders or central figures or central structures of authority, strikes me as like a super Saturn Neptune and Aries kind of subplot. So I just really love that you brought. That up. Jen, I think that's super important. I love how you said, if you're not actually doing the work, it's like this placement will sort of kick you out.

Let me go on to we're going to do, Patrick, and then gray on the same question. Then I've got a few little questions to to kind of take us down the home stretch with Patrick. What do you think about this combination in Aries? Hope you're muted.

Thank you. I just wanted to say thank you to Jason for breaking the fox seal. You know, I have clients sometimes who go like, can I swear? And I'm like, Yes, you can fucking swear. And you know, that helps people feel more at ease. But So a while ago, I was thinking about Saturn in Aries. And I was thinking, okay, so Saturn likes to restrict or regulate or control, and Aries is ruled by Mars, so Mars is providing the resources of violence or weapons. And so I was like, Okay, well, therefore Saturn Aries periods should coincide with periods when, like, gun control efforts occur.

And so I look back through those returns, and it turns out that, yeah, you know, back in 1997 1998 that was when England and Australia both had universal gun bans. And if you go back even further, you sort of see gun bans happen in California in the 1960s under a very different set of circumstances. And even the creation of the FBI itself and happened under Saturn areas. So there seems to be something about Saturn in areas with, like, creating these structures or rules surrounding the use of force.

And so I'm a little concerned about that. Because, you know, obviously United States has, like, a long history of having an issue with this particular policy goal, and it makes sense, because the Second Amendment, the Second Amendment itself, was ratified under Saturn in Aries period. So this seems to be going back a long ways in the history of this country and but we know that it's global. It's not just a United States story, other countries also taking these kind of initiatives in this time.

So I remember thinking back last year like, well, Saturn is going to be in Aries, and that seems to coincide with gun control. Well, surely that probably means, you know, the pro gun control side wouldn't be in power. But interestingly, we look back at that 1960s example, there was gun control implemented in California by the then Governor Ronald Reagan, but it was only in response to the rise of armed Black Panthers. So unfortunately, in our current context, that makes me think like there may be restrictions on on weapons that are more targeted, and not necessarily, we may get gun control, but like, not the kind you might like.

And so I just kind of want to prepare people for that. And the other sort of insight I had was, well, okay, let's think really basic Saturn. It likes to build things, or build sort of institutions or build walls. That was where we heard a lot of talk about a wall being built when Saturn was in Capricorn. And of course, when the Berlin Wall was first constructed was when Saturn was in Capricorn. So there seems to be this big theme on walls with Saturn in Capricorn. Well, Saturn in Aries, that would seems as just a wall made of fire.

And of course, that's the word we use for blocking internet traffic. And when you look back when China instituted their own firewall, that was when Saturn was in Aries square, Neptune in late the late 90s. And so one of the things I'm sort of expecting we'll probably see a Saturn and Neptune moving close together, is probably the erection of a global firewall of some sort, because Neptune tends to globalize and distribute. So not really looking forward to that either.

So I would say, you know, as if you are hearing this and going like, Okay, this sounds kind of alarming, maybe look into a satellite internet, maybe an independent one, maybe one from outside of your country, and I won't make any recommendations surrounding weapons, but you know, if you're concerned that you may not be able to have access to that, then I guess you'd have to think about what you might do about that.

Now, I want to say one other thing about Saturn and Aries, because actually, Sam reminded me of this. You know, before I was a teacher, I was a music te for five years. Before I was a music teacher, I was a substitute teacher. And so I've sat in the fifth This is my particular, I guess, uh, burden is dealing with kids. And I think Saturn in Aries is like an elderly substitute teacher. Trying to desperately keep control over a classroom of unruly jocks who just don't care that he's in charge.

And I think that's how I kind of conceptualize Saturn in being fallen in Aries, Saturn doesn't get respect. In Aries, those jock kids do not care to be ruled over by the elderly substitute teachers just trying to do his job. And I think we see the same kind of attitude with respect to people who are very virulently pro gun rights versus people who are trying to control the ownership of guns. Saturn doesn't get a whole lot of respect. We typically, you know, depending on the issue, people understand the need for certain regulations, but for that particular issue, do you think that gun owners hold a high opinion of the government trying to regulate their weapons? Like no, they hold Saturn in very low regard in that in that respect, and so that's how I kind of understand Saturn being fallen in areas it doesn't get respect.

Now, does that mean it's wrong? Does that mean it's not doing a useful function, you know? I think it's, it can be reasonable, but, you know, but I think that's kind of the tricky thing for all fallen planets, all planets in that are in their opposite signs, they are trying to do their function, even if they are not necessarily getting the respect that they deserve, doesn't mean that they're wrong for doing it, or that they're bad. They are. They are. They're doing it on hard mode. They are not doing so with the kind of esteem of the environment or the figures in that environment.

So one other thing I would want to say, just reflecting on a few other things that people have talked about. You know, Rebecca was talking about, like, what is our new myth? One of the things I think we can see with Neptune's entrance into Aries is probably a new era in media. You know, Neptune and Pisces. Neptune entered Pisces right as Disney, like bought Lucasfilm, right as Disney bought like was producing the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and we had this incredible Neptune in Pisces run of basically making everyone, every comic book nerds, dreams come true, you know, with these very escapist, fantastical, nostalgic, throwback type franchises, you know, and it's interesting now with Neptune now coming to the end of Pisces, and with Pisces, and with Saturn coming to this conjunction with Neptune, that we're kind of seeing the closure of a lot of these things, you know, we're getting these, like concluding Avengers movies coming out, you know, with this conjunction.

And, you know, we're seeing the end of the Stranger Things Show, you know, which started at that conjunction in Pisces. And so I think one of the things I'm anticipating with Neptune and Saturn moving into this new sign of Aries, that we're probably going to be moving away from the watery streaming era, the the watery nostalgic, nostalgia driven Pisces environment of media consumption, and probably Moving towards self generated or self directed or immersive VR, types of entertainment and molding or merging experiences of cinema with VR, interactive storytelling, and kind of self driven storytelling, where you're actually kind of the hero of the story, and you're on Your own kind of hero's journey.

So instead of a studio having to spend millions of dollars on a Star Wars movie and hope that no one you know spoils it, you know, leak spoilers, they'll just, you know, send you a download, basically, of, you know, an interactive experience, which you would be the center of that story, and you make your own story. And that, especially with the way AI tools are going in the decimation we're seeing, kind of the future of a lot of jobs in Hollywood. The only job left will be director and writer, and that will be something anyone can do.

And so I think we're going to kind of see that Neptune an era kind of begin, really this Do It Yourself era, as Catherine mentioned, with Neptune moving into that sign. And one other thing I would say for sorry for hugging the mic is, you know, we talked about how wars, I know Becca mentioned that there's a sense of like demoralization and just reaching the absolute limit of like what the human spirit can even take with conflicts.

But I think another thing to keep in mind is that, you know, with Saturn Neptune, we're seeing the questioning of borders, and borders are definitely something that can spark conflicts. So right now we have someone who wants to rename bodies of water, for example, while Saturn was conjunct Neptune in Pisces, right? We see, you know, where we may be very attached to the way that our maps look right now, you know, with the way that the boundaries of states are drawn, for example. But I think by the end of this transit, that could be Rey. Drawn given, especially the historical throwbacks we're seeing to other times of self definition for the country.

So I think when no one's at the helm, when the President is not doing their job, essentially, that's when you get a do it yourself. Environment, again, throwing back to Catherine. So there's just a few threads that kind of with connecting wall is hearing you, and that's kind of what I think of Saturn in Aries. It's, yeah, I think of that substitute teacher.

And I think of my own experience with substitute teaching, which wasn't quite as bad as that, but yeah, anyway, that's what I have.

Thank you, Patrick, that was awesome. I really appreciated some of those perspectives that you brought in. And thank you to everyone. This has been just awesome. One thing that came to my mind, and I mentioned this at the very tail end of a presentation I did at norwac recently on Neptune in Aries, where someone said, Well, what do you think about you know, Saturn in Aries. Give us a few thoughts. And I remembered another thing that was happening in the late 90s in my own life, while Saturn was in Aries, speaking to that downfall of solar figures, that that theme.

And so my father, who was a minister, was basically, he was in the midst of his Uranus opposition. There were marital affairs happening. He was starting to drink, and he was a minister, and this was all sort of behind the scenes, and I was seeing it happen. And really nobody else was. And the one thing that I came to my mind, it just popped into my head when someone asked me in the talk about Saturn and Aries, it's like, yeah, I remember being my mom and sister were gone on a trip, and my dad had gone out to do some of this more secretive drinking that he was doing, and he came back just wasted, and he could no longer hide it from me.

It was like, me and him, and I was like, I have to help him to the bathroom to throw up. And it's clear now there's no more facade. He knows that I know exactly this fall of from His grace and His position and his integrity that's happening. And I remember thinking, he doesn't deserve my help right now, because I was so angry at his shortcomings at that moment as a 617, year old kid, or whatever I was.

And so the other image that comes to my mind is Patrick was mentioning like Saturn in Aries, like not getting the respect. It also might be a Saturn in Aries that represents a Saturn in Aries. It's like, I need help, right? Like, just, to, I just thought of like how apt that is, and how we can also turn the jewel, perhaps, and think of, you know, what are these? What are the wounded figures that are represented by Saturn in Aries that are going to show up somehow.

I also had a client one time with a Saturn in Aries who, when he was a kid. He was part of a military family, and his father died in combat, and I can't remember if it was the Gulf War or what it was, but anyway, so he grew up basically without a father, and then he had a string of temporary sort of stepfather figures who are all just like awful. And I, I kept, I kept thinking about Saturn and Aries in his chart, and how he had to deal with the loss of this figure, this kind of broken father figure in his life that just was that died and then wasn't there and had these poor substitutes, and that there may also be some element of our work while Saturn and Neptune are in Aries that has to do with, I mean, how hard is it to want to turn our care compassion to people that resemble Saturn in areas that may not deserve it. You know what I mean? What happens when the person you least align with ideologically that is most an enemy somehow is wounded and needs your care, or my care or our care? What and how do you mean? The question for me in that moment is, like, I'm not condoning your behavior because I'm walking you to the bathroom to puke right now, dad, you know, you know, like, and I remember, like, do I say that? Or do I have to say that? Or, you know, like, does it go without saying that I don't condone like, that's like, tricky when, you know, especially when I was, like, just a kid or whatever. But yeah, so anyway, that just came to my mind as because that substitute teacher image was like, so perfect, and then it reminded me of that other, I guess, the kind of inverse image, like a broken Saturn that needs help. Jason, what do you think I want to respond? Partly because I'm going to have to go to have my Aries. I'm a very. Competitive volleyball player, and I need to go win. Yeah, that's part of it. And I have a good volleyball metaphor to bring to what you just said, you know.

Because for me, I think the you know, right? We are all you know. We are all going to be with those Saturn and Aries, and we also are all going to be that meaning, not have it together, not be able to, you know, organize ourselves. Everyone is your father, right? You know, like that is part of the invitation, perhaps, of Saturn becoming depressed and fallen in Aries is kind of like, No, you don't have it together, and Neptune will be happy to help. You know that too.

But what I am feeling, you know, in this you brought in also the Pluto and Aquarius and Uranus and Gemini. There's the sextile, right going on. And to me, that's just flowing energy, not good or bad. And you know, the harder part of it for me is what I see happening where, you know, when Patrick paints the picture of people enclosed in their main character syndrome, and that the technology confirms you are indeed the main character. And you can kind of see people being bound by the Pluto Aquarius, Uranus Gemini technology, you know, in a pseudo connective space.

So that's one way that I see that absolutely happening, and I really don't see how that won't be happening. But the other option for sextile, you know, and by the way, for me, the sextile is like a good set in volleyball, you know, it's like the setter really runs the game right, like, sets it up so you can have, like, the right hit. And, you know, so for Saturn, nothing to get its hit, you know, the possibility of asking for help. I love that you brought that in. It's 100% the thing I would like to see. And it goes back to what I'm saying, that Ares is so vulnerable.

Like, there's nothing more vulnerable than a soldier on a battlefield, like, period, like we, a lot of us, I think if we haven't had exposure to that world, might think, Oh, well, he's armed and got a gun and, you know, but actually, it's an incredibly vulnerable position to be there. And there is this asking for help, this community possibility, like, there's an entirely different way than tech bro oligarchies to do Uranus and Gemini and Pluto and Aquarius like. And I think many of us are going to be really doing that and asking for that help from each other and mutually being mutual aid to each other, and that really changes, to me, the set that that actually creates the container of relatedness, inside of which we can do the grieving, the resetting, the initiating, like again.

There's a consciousness piece here that can be, you know, people are speaking about grief, but people can decline grieving, and that's usually when they create wars, is to in programmatic, you know, activations, right? People turn again, back to Saturn Neptune. It's like the error that I see repeatedly with Saturn Neptune, is to take some Neptunian vision and try to turn it into an agenda, because you can't really be with the grief that you can never realize a Neptunian vision and form that doesn't work that way here so that, but we don't want to grieve that we instead, there's a programmatic utopia.

You know, Marxism and communism would be a great example. Also 1846 right? Is the debut of an idea which then becomes programatized and becomes, you know, really problematic, or even in the 89 zone, right? This is absolutely when identitarian political, like critical theory, which is an incredible way of seeing the larger things, becomes an operationalized identitarian thing. It was never a politics, right? It's a way of seeing it, so it's a way of intervening. But if you turn it into a Saturn agenda, you again, end up losing all the revolutionary potential of it, right? It's like, and we end up in this situation now where it's all being thrown overboard, like, oh, fuck it all, all that identity stuff. Get rid of it because it got too pilgrimage. From my perspective, it's like it lost its powers.

And so I guess for me, that those all feel like deferrals of grief. Those all feel like we don't want to really go through this. We want to have something that will just like, hop over the grief and create the new world. But again, if we can hang out together and care for each other with Pluto Aquarius, Uranus, Gemini, help that would create that space inside of which, you know, to really do the things that will initiate something else.

And I feel that happening in people's lives. I I felt that at norwac Did Norwalk this year, to me where Saturn did go. Whoop. You know that energy felt from my I'm sure we all have different Norwex as indeed we will, but one thing I really felt aware of was a community processes that were actually felt a little bit different to me in this year. And I see that in a lot of things, and I see astrology having that role. As it always does, of being a scaffolding for the next thing, which isn't again, amazing, like nobody gets to know what that is, but the being with, you know, being with together, I just can't say about that sextile and their sextiles are often missed opportunities, right? It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a Venusian flirtation that you can either, you know, keep walking, or, you know, I always think passing each other on the street and you know, are you going to actually go meet or you just going to keep walking, you know, but there is a thing you know, like, we've got a great set here, so hit the fucking ball.

You want to jump in? Yeah, I just want to jump right in. And really hold space for what Jason shared just now, and go back to 1989 because from the East German perspective, when the German Democratic Republic disappeared overnight, what the demonstrators on the Monday demonstrations had been working towards was a third kind of Germany that wasn't West Germany and wasn't East Germany, and that West Germany would change just as much as East Germany would change. And what happened was that East Germany got colonized by capital, and then didn't become a third thing. It became like West Germany.

And so based off of that example, I think we really have to be with grieving the old what's going away, and not rush into replicating some kind of new structure and really learn from the past time that Saturn and Neptune were conjunct. Because I used to have when I left Germany, I was an exchange student when I was 1516, and when I left, I would say to people, I have nostalgia for other people's nostalgia. It's like a really weird, derivative thing of like, I'm mourning the past that they were living through in a country I could never visit, but I was living in, but it wasn't there. And then I was longing for their longing for their identity that they would never get back and aware of this, this possible future that never happened either, that was really hard for them, because they would say, Oh, well, you know, even though we were living in a democratic or socialist dictatorship, we had this freedom of family that we don't have now. We had a kind of community that was free from certain pressures of money that we absolutely are damaged by with capitalism here and so and even gender protections for women got rolled back 40 years for them.

So there were a lot of subtle, beautiful things about the state form that was wrong, that they were hoping they could marry together and change West Germany back, that it would be a kind of mutual exchange. And that never happened. And I don't think that gets spoken about enough, because we have this fantasy of like, Oh, cool. Everyone's got TVs and Barbies and cars now, right? And it's like, okay, also, there's this deeper level of, what if they had followed Jason's advice and the West had stayed with the change and had acknowledged a unification of a third kind of being Germany, instead of this invasion of the Western values into like, bad east, communist Cold War. Oh, freezing Gray, right? It was like, oh, okay, bring color, bring TV, bring life. That's not what they wanted.

And so I think there was a missed opportunity that, with it being in Aries, now it's like, maybe we can course correct and not be under those Capricornian stresses. And the Aries gives us an opportunity to actually make something new. I also want to remind the folks that we haven't heard from gray yet.

So, Jason, I know you have to go pretty quickly. Would you like me to just briefly tell people how they can get in touch with you, since you have to leave. Yeah.

And the main thing I want people to get in touch with is a conference where many of us will be and I just want to name it. Adam has has put it on there. We're having a living astrology conference here, and Rebecca and gray are both presenting. Sam has been part of helping it come together, and it's about all experiential approaches. So that's my main thing. I My website is my name. That's pretty easy but, but this is the thing I really this is an alternate Pluto and Aquarius opportunity.

This is and it's here in Santa Fe, yeah, just to be clear, Santa Fe, New Mexico.

That's funny for me. Adam, thank you for Yeah.

So Jason holly.net, is how you can get in touch with Jason and his work more personally, livingastrologies.net. Is the website for this conference, experiential astrology. I love it. I think, just to save my own two cents for the people that are coming from my audience, what I appreciate about this kind of work is that you're you're hearing from me all the time, someone saying, I think it's best to pair astrology with other kinds of practices, whether it could be dance or anything creative, or if it's, you know, mystical, if it's meditative, if it's yoga, if it's exercise. I think. Um, there is a tendency sometimes for, you know, this is astrology, right? It's got a logos at the end, and it can be a little rational and sort of heady. And so this is a really nice opportunity to bring astrology into the body. I would say, Jason, is that an accurate way of putting it and into felt experience?

Yeah, for sure. I mean, we will be dancing, we'll be doing Astro drama, we'll be doing method drama. We'll be making art, making talismanic art, you know, and, and I think everybody's already doing this, so that we aren't the center of this. This is a mycelial activation. That's all it is. This is going on all over. Lots of people are doing it, but it's quiet and but that might it's already happening, so we're just infusing the mycelium. That's, that's what this is. And I mean, many people on this panel do versions of this, you know, so, but it's time to start being in communication about it and actually elevating the discourse and the processes and how we do this responsibly and meaningfully. So anyhow, I'm very excited about it.

No, you should be. We all I'm sure everyone on the panel agrees with me that we appreciate you for holding a point like this of light in the mycelial network. So so thank you for that. I want to make sure that gray gets a chance to respond to the second question that I asked everyone, which is, what do you think about these two planets in Aries after gray addresses this question, I have one final question for everyone, which will allow everyone to offer like a summarizing thought, or maybe some things that haven't gotten a chance to say that it popped up as we've gone along the way. But Gray, what do you think about this combination in Aries?

Yeah, just to I mean, one of the things that's so important about it that this has already, we've already been talking about some is the fact that we have this Aries point world access activation, and then we go back into Pisces, and then we come forward again. And so just a circle back to what Becca was bringing up that also connects with what others were talking about, just the immense grief and certainly veterans with PTSD. But there's also, there's so many people having mental health crises and just all sorts of deep layers of grief. And so something is going to be really set off that's going to be really extreme.

I appreciate Patrick for bringing up some possibilities that some people might have been like, I didn't even think about that. And we have to actually be ready that things are going to go way beyond that. Because when we are talking about the world axis, this is, you know, you're projecting the celestial equate around the space. It's the intersection with the ecliptic. It's the node of the earth. Is the absolute archetypal power of increase. It's affecting everything, and Saturn and Neptune conjunction anyway, always go with our entire collective perception of reality, changing in incredibly dramatic ways.

But this would be one just alone, that would say we're going way beyond that, plus we're putting it in configuration with Uranus and Gemini and Pluto and Aquarius. So for all the stuff like Patrick was talking about, it's really interesting with the internet, since the World Wide Web did come up at the last conjunction, and every single square opposition square is a really pivotal development in that like the 9899 is like the.com bubble, and like Google and Google search engine, don't hit the opposition, like Twitter, social media, like the web two, oh, user generated conflict content. We hit the square. It's completely taking over politics.

There's a virtual reality coming up. We go back to the previous 152, 53 we have television. Era comes up, everybody's that's the original sort of are all connected on screens, and then we're all being manipulated. And, you know, there's all sorts of issues around that. The one, the ones I think that's that, I think is really fascinating, is the 1882 on when Saturn was in Aries, leading up to that is when Edison brought in, like the light bulb, and we get to that 1882 conjunction in Tarnas, he lights up a city block, and that's usually said to be the dawning of the electrical era.

And I think that's a really amazing example to think about how much that changed humanity. Our dreams, our imaginations, our ability to create. Because what's happening right now, we don't even know where it's all going. It's going to be changing so fast, so quickly, just when we think about, you know, having electricity, being a turn ON light bulbs, our relationship with. Darkness, our relationship with natural cycles. You know, it's our creative process, our ability to imagine and create, that's going to continue, but it's going to be really significantly altered, and that, that increasing, fast pace of change that's going to come in, it is going to be really important for that grieving process to be held simultaneously, and to really have a lot of compassion and outreach.

And because things are going to be changing, and things are going to be, you know, falling away that you thought could rely on Patrick's absolutely right. There's such, too many examples to go through, but the whether it's empires falling, whether it's borders dramatically changing, this happens almost every single time Saturn, that team comes together. So there's this fundamental aspects that you think about reality changing, and that creates all sorts of complexes for people now, at the same time, I do think this can be very creative.

We haven't talked enough about it being also the exaltation of the sun, and we do see lots of Creative Innovations throughout history with Neptune in Aries in particular, but also that combination, it can be actually very counter cultural, especially Saturn Aries. I also think about planets and fall being extremely counter cultural. So I think one of the figures that I really think about with Sandra and Neptune, who I think is a great teacher for us, is Bell Hooks. He was born with the exaltation, as well as she has a whole like Libra stellium around that. And her book, all about love, really speaks to what we what we need during these times.

And in that book, one of the things she talked about was how, sort of how we're going to describe it, capitalist, patriarchal, or whatever culture is, it just basically, kind of likes us to lie and develop these false selves and develop the network now it's like where everyone's got these avatars and personas. It's going to, this is going to get, you know, way more extreme in the years ahead, with whatever is happening, and she talks about which, I think it's very Saturn Neptune, this ability to pull away into solitude, in the Saturn way, and shed that false self. I think that's something we are going to need to be able to do, and then coming back into the community with that sense of authenticity. But at the same time, you know, we're going to have to, you know, not just cutting ourselves off from people, but there's going to be lots of people needing help and outreach and that sort of thing. But yeah, just with the Aries, there's this, it's, it's so dramatic with what's going to come in with this.

Thanks, gray. This has been really, really nice. I know Jason had to scoot. Really appreciate his presence here today. What I want to do to close us out, because we're at about two hours now, is final thoughts. I'm going to go around the panel, any final thoughts you have, maybe something you thought of along the way, that you'd like to add to the conversation, and also any, what I want to call, like, personal, practical, remedial, astrological advice, like anything. If you were with a client, they were like, how do I live through this period? Anything that comes to your mind whatsoever. Maybe it's a gemstone or something like, like, actually remedial, or maybe it's a piece of advice or a life philosophy, whatever comes to your mind, let's throw a few useful, practical tips out there for working with this energy in our personal lives, and again, anything else that's sort of left over that you might want to add to the conversation. I am going to start with Sam.

All right, yeah, I have a lot to say, so I'll try to be brief. Like, Jen, I like to also look at history. And the last time the Saturn and Neptune were conjoined in Aries specifically, was 1703, and I think that's pretty significant, given what Jen mentioned about the Westphalian era, or system, and then at the precipice of going into what we now call the 18th century, and what that brought, which is that nationalism and imperialism and all those particular things that came in its wake.

And so we also have to look at that in the context, I believe, in looking at in the context of Jupiter, Saturn, conjunction. So the latest one. It was in in 2020, and so this Saturn Neptune conjunction would be in the third house from that, if we put it in that sense. So this, this death, definitely testifies to what both Patrick and gray have talked about related to media. And for us to think about that. So I have more to say in just a minute about that, but I think that's something for us to process.

Where I differ is I'm not as optimistic in a certain way about Saturn and Neptune related to power. I think it consolidates a certain level of desperation for folks in power, and we saw this the last time, not the last time, but the second last time. You know, when I was born, when Saturn and Neptune Saturn, it was in Aries, and there were the assassinations of Martin Luther King, Jr, and also of RFK. And what's interesting is to see the parallel now, the ascendancy of RFK sun, as Saturn is in Aries and dealing with the level of power.

The other time we experienced challenges to power, but it didn't necessarily coalesce. Was in 1996 97 with the impeachment of Bill Clinton, which didn't lead to his full impeachment, but it was a challenge related to the authority of the president. And so I think what that leaves us with is kind of thinking about our relationship to power, not just those in power, and thinking how they're going to be, quote unquote unseated, but what we're willing to do, Saturn Neptune in order to make it work, you know. And I think that becomes important, especially for those of us who are more activist leaning. And this is where I draw in Rebecca's beautiful point about our new myth for humanity and what we want.

Because one of the things that's interesting about the last time that Neptune was in Aries, it also gave birth to a level of literary fervor about the idea of what humanity could be. HG, wells, all these different people who emerge at that time to kind of dream what humanity could be, and even starting to articulate what we now know as a kind of science fiction, and all these particular things that kind of start to coalesce. And I think Saturn, Neptune, which is new to that, you know, is versus 1846 and last time that in 1861 last time Neptune was in Aries, what is new is kind of, you know, I think distinguishing the BS from what's real.

And I'm going to go on a limb here. And you guys know I'm used to going down on limbs that particular way. Is that I think this whole idea of giving so much space to AI is BS. I think it's BS, especially AI, because I think even Elon Musk has said something like the whole purpose for humanity is to be able to give birth to a super intelligence, which I think is crazy, okay? And I think that becomes important to challenge that narrative for so many reasons. And one of the fundamental reasons that we can't ignore, I mean, we should definitely be thinking about how we're going to pioneer, how we're going to talk about new ways of being, new articulations of media.

But we do have to be careful, having come just from an age of Earth with the Jupiter Saturn conjunction in Earth up into that point, without thinking about resources. And you know, AI eats up immense amounts of resources, and we can't lose sight of that. And as much as we want to talk about how beautiful, how fun it is, every time you go for a prompt, you are, you know, taking a whole vial of water, and maybe even a gallon. And I think we have to think about, well, do I want to be able to answer this, quote, unquote, silly question, or what I want to be able to drink water in 20 years? Or my kid to be able to drink water.

So I think as we think about moving into technology, moving into this new moment of Saturn and Neptune, it's going to be important for us to kind of come up with a myth of sustainability as human beings on our planet, as we seek to pioneer. Now to answer your question, Adam, I'll say that for Saturn, Neptune, I would say for folks, depending on where it is in your chart, make the dream real. Start retro, actively thinking or retro, yeah, retrofitting the dream. How do you get to the point where you want to be? You know, thinking concrete steps.

So for instance, I'm just going to put out there for the millennials and Gen Z. Yeah, I'm getting, you know, I'm older. I'm not saying I'm old, but I'll just put it this way. You know, go a GoFundMe is not a marketing plan, right? Or you kind of coming off every now and again, like my books are open. In, you know, you can What's your plan, right? Where are you kind of designating how you're going to create sustainability in your life? That's the combination of Saturn and Neptune in terms of what you're going to create in terms of situating and structuring your dream. All right? That's, that's my thought.

I love that that is so yeah, that was just really nice. And yeah, thinking about those ecological ramifications, I I just became aware of that, literally, in the past like month or two, maybe I wasn't and then my my wife, who is good, double Taurus, cancer rising and is really very eco aware, far more so than me. I'm always up in my head somewhere, right? But anyway, she was, she was kind of making me aware of that. And then I started thinking about that, that idea of water and air again, and how the water is fueling the air elementally in that exchange, and that eventually the air has to come crashing back down to water, doesn't it?

In the elemental stages of development, the the air eventually condenses into um clouds and bursts. What does that look like when there's an unconscious tapping of water from the get go of that cycle? And I'm thinking now, of course, metaphorically, but the relation between the water and air is at play in that dynamic. And it strikes me as very Pluto and Aquarius, like a shadow of that dynamic, the water from the sky. It's fascinating. Anyway, I won't labor that, because I really haven't thought through it very much, but you can just just see where my head is going, at least.

Thank you, Sam as always, enlightening, incisive, funny. Love having you around. I'm really glad you could be here today. I want to tell everybody about how you can find Sam's work. I'm going to do this for each person as we go through now, Sam's very good work can be found at unlock, astrology.com, I think he he has like, three or four talks he's done for my students over the years. We're gonna try to get it, get you back sometime soon. Sam, it's been a minute since we've had you out, so we'd like to get you back. Um, a fantastic astrologer to work with. I have no idea, like, what you're you have retreats, anything you want to plug real quick.

Sam, um, I am going to be doing something with Kepler College, and that we are going to be having, we're going to have a symposium in September, so be sure to check that out. So that's, I believe the I should know the dates by heart, but fifth through the ninth, but yeah, but early September,

and I assume that you'll be at UAC in 26 as well.

Inshallah, yeah, 2026 I hope to be at UN that probably

is the next time that the majority of us will be together, all in person, I would guess. But yeah, anyway, that's fun. Okay, thank you. Yeah, yeah, thank you for being here. I'm gonna go next to Becca. Becca, any final thoughts, any words of advice.

There's so many different things that have been sparked by this amazing conversation. I love being here and learning from all of you. It's really such a privilege and an honor. Let's see if I can weave this together so with with the ecological themes. A number of years ago, I did under the last Saturn Neptune square. I did research looking at correlations between Saturn Neptune alignments and drought, and was amazed to see very significant correlations there.

For example, the dust bowl that had such a devastating effect across North America happened in the mid 1930s under the Saturn Neptune opposition at that time. Now, not every drought occurs under a Saturn Neptune alignment. Not every Saturn Neptune alignment happens to line up with with a drought, but it was really interesting to see the patterning and the crises related to water, whether that is a lack a deprivation of water, as we see in drought, or the destructive death dealing effect of water, as we saw with, say, Hurricane Katrina or the Indonesian tsunami under the Saturn Neptune opposition. 2005 2006 so I think that these ecological themes, as particularly related to water, are going to be coming more and more to the fore of our consciousness.

Another theme I just wanted to bring in from before, when a number of you were talking about the the fall of the father figure, the Saturnian figures. You're also talking about this solar heroic figures, the fact that we can often see a crisis of faith that takes place under Saturn Neptune and Friedrich Nietzsche, who was born with very wide Saturn Neptune conjunction in 1844 Declared the death of God under the subsequent Saturn Neptune conjunction in 1881 and I had that in my mind, as all of you were speaking about, well, what if that figure needs help? And so what does that mean for us now, in terms of what if the divine needs our help to step in and take on that responsibility.

You know, we geologists are debating that. We call this era the Anthropocene, because humans have become a geological force, and with that power, we're taking on a responsibility collectively that I don't think we have the collective consciousness yet to be able to do. And this question of, you know, there's, there's so many negative sides to globalization, you can take a different approach, though, as we're talking about in terms of this kind of erasure of borders, of boundaries, of entering into what Edgar Moran calls a planetary era. What does it mean to step into becoming a planetary civilization for the first time?

So these are just some of the themes that that have been on my mind lately in relation to this conjunction that that we're in and connecting to some prior themes, so and in terms of practical advice of surviving through a Saturn Neptune era, I think creating space for those feelings of grief and loss and mourning, not turning away from it, but being with it. You know, listening to great music that lets you actually emote. That I'm thinking of Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings, which he was born with, Saturn Neptune. He composed under Saturn Neptune alignment. It's, I know people who've gone through a Saturn Neptune personal transit, well, they'll just listen to that piece over and over again, because it lets you feel the grief and move it through.

So grief practices, discipline, spiritual practice, creating that container to connect with something beyond as a way to kind of bring meaning into the meaninglessness. I think something with with Saturn Neptune periods is we can often feel like, well, is there any meaning? Is there any sacred, is there any divine? And then we look and realize that that very experience is correlating with an alignment of two planets that symbolize that very thing, that there is meaning in the meaninglessness that we're being reflected by the cosmos itself, in our very feelings of isolation from that very cosmos.

So if through this period, any of you are feeling that, that sense of being cut off from the sacred realize that you're part of something larger that's reflecting that very thing to you in that moment. I also want to just say in closing that I want to stay on as long as I possibly can. And I also have a one year old who's waiting for me, so I might have to dip out a little bit earlier. Interestingly, quite a empirical observation. Experience, my son has zero degrees Aries rising, and so I've been watching as the Saturn Neptune. He's born with Neptune right there, one degree from his ascendant. But watching the Saturn Neptune cross his ascendant.

And just days before Neptune moved into Aries, he started walking, and with so much of that Aries determination, and then on his birthday, Saturn moved into Aries, moved right onto his ascendant, and the next day, all of us in my home, you look older, you look you're a little boy now. You're not a baby anymore. And how quickly it seemed to happen on that day of his birthday. So I might have to dip out a little bit early, but I want to stay as long as I can to hear from the rest of you, so we'll just see when the screaming starts.

Becca, that was awesome. Thank you so much for those thoughts, so many of which just I feel resonating within me. A couple of things. You were talking about water when Mars was going through its retrograde in cancer. It was in my third house, and our local neighborhood water pipelines came under construction because of toxicity, and so we got a spring water service, you know, where they bring the bottles to your house. You kind of have, like, what are those? Like, office stands or you can so we got that, and I was drinking spring water, and I. Was like, Oh my gosh, I don't think I've think I've been drinking real water for a while. You know, just this, you could feel the minerals and the electricity almost like in the water.

And I had this feeling it. It was very instinctual. It was like, this is a little crazy. This is what everyone should be drinking. This is what everyone should have access to, real water. And all of a sudden, I just thought, we're gonna have to, there's gonna be a time not far off where we're gonna have to, like, fight for our water, for rights to water. It was just like an intuition. It was really strong during the Mars in Cancer retrograde. And I can't help but think that, you know, maybe that was a little bit of a prelude with Mars being the ruler of Aries to Neptune moving into this sign of Aries, where something like conflict around something so Neptunian, like water, could take place. Anyway, I was just that that I brought that up.

The other thing, when Saturn was in Aries and I was in high school Becca during that same phase, I mentioned where my dad was really struggling, and I was sort of one of the only people who really was witnessing it. I was so disturbed to find in his office one day a copy of Nietzsche's text, and it was, I'm not sure if it was his text or if it was a sort of commentary, a further elaboration of his text, but the title of the book said God is dead. And as a kid who didn't know anything about the context of what Nietzsche was looking at, that was a really shocking thing for me to see.

And the other thing that was really interesting from earlier was that my dad's downfall paralleled within a month, when I became aware of some of these things for the first time, the controversy with Bill Clinton, which I thought was like very you know, it's just like, there's sometimes there's these parallels between what's happening in our personal lives and the expressions in the collective that are really fascinating. I also just want to say how much I appreciate the like giving room for like I said, sometimes we have to put a redemptive narrative where, really it's scary to be with pain, suffering and permanence, melancholy. And yet, if you think I think about there's a band I like called Sleeping at last, and they have this beautiful song called Saturn. And in that song, it really, the song really gives voice to the melancholy of Saturn.

And what I love about that song is that there's no need for an antidote when you sink into the beauty of the music, expressing that melancholy. That's why similar, I think, why we have the blues, or that kind of blues shaking gospel music that's born of suffering, you know, like sometimes there's an esthetic dimension to the experience that can so quickly transcend the need for like a teleology to be assigned. Why is this happening? What will come of it? So I just really appreciate you touching into that. I think that's really important.

Becca can be found. Let's see here. Becca tarnas.com so if you want to work with Becca, Becca is teaching at the California Institute of integral studies. So if you decide to go to school there, at some point, a lot of people in this astrological community will find that that is an allied place of learning. And so it's not surprising to see that Becca is a faculty there anything else that you want to plug Becca aside from directing people to your website,

I think that's the main thing. At this point, I've kind of very gratefully tucked myself away into a graduate school and teaching archetypal studies and transpersonal psychology and Jungian psychology there. So yeah, that's, that's the main area where, if you want to come work with me, you can come get a PhD or master's degree in that context.

But it's, it's really, it feels like a wonderful kind of coming back into the astrology community, being here today and connecting with all of you. So thank you so much for inviting me here.

Yeah, absolutely. And if you guys don't know Becca's work, another thing that I just have to say that you will be delighted to find out, if you search, do a little searching, of Becca's work online, is the amazing connections that she's made between the realm of Middle Earth, The Hobbit, the Lord of the Rings, and archetypes. It is easily one of my favorite features of Becca is that she is like a fantastic Lord of the Rings, like Master expert. So just a plug there, because I'm I'm sure people could probably find some of that content online somewhere.

Becca. I yeah,

I think even you've posted a video of the astrology of JR Tolkien that that I did for your platform.

There we go. It's on my channel. Okay,

yeah, I have a number of things on Tolkien there, who's also wonderful to journey with during a Saturn Neptune period he was born with the Trine. So I. A wonderful way to to enter into the imaginal realm in that form.

Absolutely. Thank you so much. Becca, thank you. I'm going to move next to Rebecca, and I apologize while you say a final few things, I have to use the bathroom or I am going to Saturn Neptune burst through the boundaries. So go, Go For I'll be right back.

Okay, hello. So wait was this for me or for you? Becca, sorry for you to close up.

I think it was to you. I think we're passing from one go back into the other.

Okay. Becca, to Rebecca, okay. First, it's just so refreshing to be here and hear so many astrologers speaking into the much needed environmental crisis. And I don't think I've been on a panel where recently, where I've heard just that resonant tone that's necessary, and that we can speak to, yeah, like the last 14 years Neptune being in Pisces and the crisis of water, and now how we're facing it when we have this hot and dry year coming up as well, with both in Aries. So we have to start preparing for that for sure, and thinking about that more ecologically, so that, I guess, coming back to that new myth of what it is to be human, and rounding that out and what is a new hero, and I agree it is to be a good steward of this planet, to take good care of this earth, to get in right relationship with this earth. It's almost as if we don't have a choice.

And if just looking at like the way everything's moving from, you know, the beginning of humanity, to Hunter gather, to agrarian and then industrial revolution, right? And then we're moving to this technology age, and then that brings up this concept of us not needing to do a lot of the things that we that our ego did before, and AI doing those. So I do want to bring in the concept of AI again, because a lot of the things that had been somehow stripped away from us, like, Oh, you don't need to stay home anymore with your kid, because you can do this. So you don't need to do this anymore. You don't need to do that. You don't need to cook anymore. You know, machines can do all of these things that actually gave humanity a sense of value and joy and purpose, you know, have ended us up in a mental health crisis having all of these things stripped away that actually gave us some sense of joy and purpose, you know, under the guise of capital.

So I just think it's interesting to look at that right now and to see, you know, to see in this mental health crisis that we're in like of depression anxiety, and how much of our population is on medication right now, it's just astounding. And also to see, like the, you know, stripping away of all these things that actually gave us joy when we didn't realize. I think our humanity just allowed it to happen, yeah, under the guise of gaining capital and progress and efficiency being efficiency, and capital being stocked as the highest order.

So, I mean, yeah, there's that obvious mental health crisis too, and coming back to Aries and coming back to like, Okay, what it is to be human, what is the human will? What do we need in service for us to be feeling alive, and what is our story here? I think the more we can talk about this and take action on it, but I want to just like, underscore the action taking. Like we're taught. We're having these conversations right now, but like, for everyone listening to it's like, Okay, what does that mean in our life tomorrow? What can we apply? How can we do an Aries thing? What does this mean to do things differently?

And I think also all of this Aries Energy says, you know, collectively, just do it. If you have an idea, if you have a business plan, whatever, don't sit on it and let it get stale like it needs to be emergent and in this moment, and we have to start trusting that instinct, and at the same time, like you're not in it alone, like also the hero's journey has that very solo. You've got to climb the hard rocks alone. You've got to do everything alone. And I just want to give a nod to Libra. Hello, Libra, because the polarity here is very important, I think.

Like, you know, when we're in any transit collectively, we're all kind of under the influence, and we can't see anything out. Like, for 20 years, we were all under the influence of Pluto and Capricorn, just like, climb the mountain, keep climbing, get to the top. This whole drug that the whole collective was just under, and then it moved into Aquarius, then it's like, what was that? Why were we climbing that mountain? What was that for? And so same thing like, let's not do that with areas. Let's not get into the mindset of, we've got to do it all alone. We've got to climb this hard mountain. Life is hard. And what if we engaged more Libra along the pathway? So just want to bring up the polarity and engaging more in relationality and partnership, considering collaborations more so, I mean, there's Yeah, and, I mean, I appreciate so much.

What Sam said as well is like giving a nod to the shadows of Aries, imperialism, dictatorship, these things that we need to just call out and watch out for and make sure that they don't happen so to having some internal stops and conversations when we hear these tendencies coming up, even in our personal lives, calling them out. What does that mean, you know, in our daily lives, and we can talk about these things so conceptually, but they're also very personal too, you know. So I always want to question, what does that mean for us when we wake up tomorrow? And what else?

Yeah, I mean, I'm born with the Saturn Neptune square exactly to the day to the hour. And so I have always felt this struggle between structure and no structure and the dissolving of the structure. And I've kind of learned the hard way throughout life to create structures that have those release valves within the structures as to kind of what I was alluding to before. So having everything tied up with Saturn squaring Neptune, all my planets in Virgo conjunct Saturn, I think like, we have to, like, there has to be a part of us too that can be a little bit Neptune, dreamy, unrealistic, and to kind of create a shape and put something out there, and have the conviction and the dream to kind of do the Saturn thing and Build a reality around it.

I mean, Martin Luther King is another one. MLK has Saturn Trine. Neptune, I have a dream, and he holds that so beautifully. So I do feel that there's great potential to do the work and do the Saturnian work, to build the bricks around the NEP Trine and dream here, I'll end with that.

Thank you, Rebecca, that was amazing. Rebecca, you can find her work at Rebecca Gordon astrology.com I quite literally wouldn't be here without Rebecca, because she was my very first teacher, the very first formal course I took and the person who really said, go out and do it like I was really hesitant to start my career. And she was like, you're fine, go do it. And I was like, Okay, so, yeah. So Rebecca is very helpful when it comes to making, you know, nebulous things like astrology come into concrete expression.

She has trained 1000s of astrologers in her career, and so you couldn't study with anyone better, in my opinion, my humble opinion. So anyway, check out Rebecca Gordon astrology.com. Rebecca, anything you? Anything else that I can plug for you that you want to mention?

Well, I just want to say how grateful I am to you, Adam, for your voice in the astrological world is so meaningful. And what you've done for this community and the whole practice of astrology, the way you've brought the community together and you do time and again year after year, I want to I'm just grateful for your presence here and what you're bringing. Thank you. It's such an honor to be here now. And yeah, that's it. Thank you.

Thank you, Rebecca. So again, you can find Rebecca's work, classes, webinars, a huge archive and library of material that Rebecca has created over the course of her career. Rebecca Gordon, astrology.com. Is the place to connect there, and we really appreciate being here today. Thank you.

So I'm going to move along to Catherine. Next. Catherine, final thoughts for us. Any words of advice? Adam.

Adam, I hate to interject, but Jen has to leave.

Oh, okay, Catherine, can I for sure? For sure? Okay, my bad, yeah, Jen,

just be really quick. There's just one. There's just one image lost the show at capital L, O, S, T, season two. Episode One, it opens in a hatch with him playing Mama Cass Elliot's make your own kind of music, which was released on with Saturn in Aries. But this is the Saturn Neptune opposition. And if you think about everything else that happens in that specific opening episode of season two of lost that is medicine for what's about to happen. And the second thing I want to mention is that two of the seven people still here are located in a place where, in 1896 there was a brewery that was founded, and the tagline for this was, it was the Olympia brewery. It's the water.

So while you're all talking about water, I'm thinking to myself, No, literally, like it's the water. Like this is Saturn Neptune opposition, holding down. So those are two moments of Saturn Neptune opposition and forming maybe, like, what we can do with conjunction energy. And that's it. I just wanted to kind of give that medicine of, if you ever you can just watch the clip on YouTube. You don't have to go crazy and, like, actually re watch all of lost, although I do think it's fun to do. I've done it twice, but that one episode, that moment, has always stood out to me in television as this, like, fantastic awakening from and what he's doing, he's, like, pushing a button to keep something normal. And the second someone else comes in, he's like, I'm out of here. Get out of this structure and break out of the hatch. So I think that's some, yeah, some medicine we can take away.

And also, thank you everyone for everything today. It's been super fantastic to hear all of your input and imagine this together with you. And also saw someone in the chat mentioning like, this is the collaboration that we can lean into, and you've always held space for that. Adam, so thank you.

Yeah, you do such wonderful work at the Caley Institute. Will you just tell folks about what that is and what they'll find when they visit this website?

Okay, so the Cayley Institute is the celestial Yeah, yeah, celestial arts education library. It is an actual archival research center in Olympia, Washington. And when you go to the website, there's a little Browse button. You can start looking at all the books that we've logged so far. But there's still a lot of things to log in, journals, archival materials. I was going to I had this at the ready. This was the Kepler college conception chart, like the concept chart, which has Saturn conjunct Neptune in it. So there's, like, lots of primary sources that you can see here by our colleagues and ancestors. So if you go to Kaylee, you can go and check out the virtual part and support us, hopefully, yes please. And then maybe sometime when you're on your way to norwac, or you happen to be in the Pacific Northwest, you can come physically and be around all the books. And it's quite a fun thing to be in a space where all of the books are in one room.

So absolutely. So check that out at the Cayley it's www dot Kaylee dot Institute. Check it out there. The Nightlight Kickstarter has contributed in the past to support the research center. So I personally feel like it's, you know, it's a really good thing to support, and something that I'll be excited to continue supporting. So thanks, Jen, Thanks for Thanks for bringing such good work and research. And there's a million other things that Jen does that we haven't even talked about. You're a powerhouse, and we really treasure you. Thank you. Okay, so now I'm going to switch back over to Catherine. Any closing thoughts, words of wisdom, advice that you have for the Saturn Neptune dynamic?

Yeah, just something else that's really on my mind right now is this theme of leadership. And we've talked a lot about how the Fallen quality of Saturn, the sense of insecurity, that doesn't I mean, keep in mind like, when this is showing up in a natal chart, you have a lifetime to work with it, and you have a lot more agency over your own way that the planets show up in your chart if you're using astrology. But collectively, we do see that sort of overcompensating authoritarian leaning with Saturn and Aries. But I also want to put into our minds this idea of the underdog.

So when we think about a planet that's fallen, this is often a planet that doesn't feel like it has the respect that everybody else has, and so this may be sort of the rise of leadership in all the senses that is unexpected. So someone who's a little bit of a maverick, an underdog, some sort of like risk taker or and even the anti hero. So we see that show up a lot too. And I'm very curious to see what Gen Z does with this. Particularly because a lot of them are coming into their first Saturn Return. And we can't think about Saturn and Aries Saturn Return without thinking about Neptune and Aries, like these two things need to be thought about together.

And so I think about that, and I think about how this is showing up in people's natal charts, that this is a major seed that's being planted in the area sector of our charts, one that we haven't seen since 8990, and as much as we've talked about the divine discontent, the grief, the heaviness of just realizing that what we thought was going to happen hasn't shaked out the way we thought it would.

There is an upswing from that, if we can allow ourselves to go through that process, and it's a soul searching process, actually, because when you feel that sense of abandonment, there, you're you're left to figure you think you have to figure it out alone, and very often, you can only be the one who figures that out for yourself, that soul searching sense, and I think that's part of it, but the other part of it is the sense of community that we're talking about here. Because Saturn, although it's fallen in Aries, it also is a triplicity Lord, and triplicity infers community and support.

And so many of us feel like we're having to take the reins when we don't necessarily feel ready, or we're being pushed to do something hard at a time when we feel really stressed, or we're being forced to take the helm when we don't feel like the world is looking to us, supporting us in that way. And so looking to that sense of support, looking to that sense of community, is important. So the thing I'll just end on is that I like to remind people, because a lot of people might have anxiety about this particular transit, is that this is a world building transit. So when we drop into that space of re envisioning or finding the meaning, or that sense of feeling alone and soul searching, this is a world building aspect, so as it is an opportunity for us to make that dream a reality.

And there may be some idealist motifs, those are gonna sort of be guideposts for us. You know, Saturn may be saying like that, ideal vision isn't going to work out necessarily in the way that we ultimately hope it will, but to be brave enough to hold that vision for yourself in your own life anyways, because we need that sense of inspiration. We need that fire right now. So think about think about that. What are you building in this area of your chart?

Yeah, I love that. Catherine. That was so awesome, so encouraging. I think that's really important, the invitation to accept the task of building a world like, wow, that's such a promising and uplifting way of looking at it. I just really appreciate you bringing that perspective. People can find your work at Catherine, urban.com Catherine, is there anything you want me to plug or promote outside of the fact that I know for a fact that if you work with Catherine, you're going to be in the hands of a person who puts the soul first, who's caring and thoughtful and intelligent when it comes to astrology, it's just been awesome to have Catherine come and teach multiple occasions for the students in the Nightlight community to share space on social media over the years, where we all kind of produce and share content and stuff like that. So I couldn't recommend following Katherine enough, but any other work that you want to promote right now?

Catherine, thank you. Adam, yeah, so I do have a class coming out. It's called Time Lords and transits. It's an 11 week course, and we're going to be looking at transits, but more through the lens of annual perfections. So we're going to be kind of blending those two, and that begins in August. And I just want to say thank you so much. Adam. You're such a gem in this community, and it's such a pleasure and an honor to share this space with you. Thank you.

Thank you. Yeah, totally. I it's really funny because I was just reflecting on the fact that this panel came together. I'm going by whole sign as Saturn was at the 29th degree of Pisces in my 11th house. And it's been a couple of years since I've done more, like, really collaborative stuff. And all of a sudden I realized that I was like, Oh yeah, I've been in a little bit of a creative hole. It's been a lot. Of things I've been building at Nightlight.

And I was looking back to, like, when Saturn was in Aquarius in my 10th house, there was a lot more community stuff that I was doing. Saturn goes into my 11th for a couple of years, and it's like, quiet. It's like, at the last degree, and it's like, boom, I have, like, the whole panel's back. I was like, oh, it's like, so funny. So I'm just really glad that that you could join us this time around, and what an awesome addition that you made to the panel, and I hope you'll come to it next time we do it,

for sure. Thank you.

Let's go to I'm going to go to Patrick next and then gray will round us off

up. Your beauty. Yep. So my advice is probably going to tend more towards the practical, because when I think of these transits, you know, I'm usually think of them at the sort of most sort of elemental level, and then I kind of have to scale it back and factor it to the situation they're actually in and like, what does this really mean, that these things are potentially on the way? So I think the number one thing would be just to remember that like you're not alone in feeling this way. If you're experiencing more of like, the the pit part of it, the dark night of the soul.

One of the major key words that I think really struck me as I kept hearing it over this talk, was sovereignty. Sovereignty, I think, is going to be the new idealism of being separate or being independent, the do it yourself mentality. I think that's going to be a major theme that takes place over the course of Neptune's transit through this sign. We've talked a lot about the sort of watery connotations of the Saturn Neptune alignments and the disturbing history of droughts and floods and other major stormy disasters. I think the 1703 one in Aries was there was a major storm that kind of reshaped people's world in that time. So I'd say, for water risk, stock up, have a plan for floods or droughts, assess your susceptibility and vulnerability to those kinds of events.

I would also say, learn self defense, whether that means both by forming local connections and strengthening your defense in that sense of in terms of having kind of local connections, or in strengthening your own capacities for self defense. I would also, because Saturn and Neptune have to do with the dissolution of truth or the murkiness of truth, or the the complicating of of truths, I would say, you know, be really wary of misinformation and the way in which you may be self deluding. Be strategic about your online footprint. You know, scrub your feet and go with the trusted sources.

I would say, even secure alternative connections to the internet. Learn how to use AI tools. Don't trade your humanity for them. Learn how to use them responsibly to help you achieve your goals. I don't think we're going to be served by sticking our heads in the sand and pretending that these things aren't here. You know, there was even a time when the internet was overhyped and there was a.com bust, but the internet, it was not a fad. And AI is not a fad. You know, the current challenges surrounding it ecologically are super important, but those will probably be able to be overcome through engineering.

But I think, Speaking more broadly, though, to these sort of environmental concerns, I think one of the big problems we have as a planet is that, you know, we have it all backwards. You know, we have planet comes last, economy comes first. Obviously, that needs to be reversed. Planet has to come first. You know, this is the only place we got making money. That's got to be the last thing. Having said that, I still think that it makes sense to learn how to use these tools to at least to be aware of them. You know, in the same way that I would say back in the 90s, you know, learn how to use email. You're going to want to know how to structure prompts, etc.

I would also advise everyone to secure the rights to your own content, license, your image license, your text, license, your videos, license your own content. Because I think when Uranus moves into Gemini, we're going to be moving towards digital doubles. Instead of, you know, your website storefront, you'll probably have an AI version of yourself. This will probably that's what I anticipate, is that we will probably be moving towards basically creating our own customized AI data sets for each person, so that you have kind of a digital double who can kind of think and speak and talk and advertise like you. And it might seem kind of crazy and surreal and scary and kind of you might even have the ick from it, but I think that it's still something that we need to critically engage with, not to say that it's all good. A but to be aware of it and to be cognizant of how that affects your intellectual copyright, property rights, etc, and copyrights, rather,

I would also say, guard your body as medical guidance shifts. And I would also say, try to convert disillusionment into rethinking and reimagining institutions. Like we said, this is a well built in transit. So the only useful, practical thing I can think of with disillusionment is to dream of something bigger and better or something more realistic. And I think overall, we could even say, Let's go for infinite sustainability instead of infinite growth. You know, maybe that is a better game plan for the planet and our own psychology, like we can't human beings were not built for this. We barely handled the industrial revolution. We are completely out of our depth the forces we've unleashed now, and unfortunately, it's us, you know, that has to actually face it.

And the last couple things I'd say is keep art and irony alive. Like that's like one of the last refuges. I think, when, when all meaning has been completely stripped away, and you're just facing the abyss, you know, you should say, you should look into the abyss and just say, hey Sup, I think just you know, knowing that, like we can get past these periods and that the whole point is to go through it, is going to help maybe go through it. But, yeah, that's what I have to say about Saturn conjunct Neptune. Good luck and

thank you so much, Patrick, that was wonderful. You can find Patrick's work at Patrick Watson astrology.com I want to make sure, Patrick, you have a chance to say anything about what you have coming up. And we also mentioned the nature so software, but anything you want to plug,

I'm open, you know, I'm no, I'm no guru, you know, I haven't said anything. I've said today because I'm, like, some, you know, incredible brain, or like, I'm some shaman, or something, like, I'm a human being, fellow human being. And I do astrology, and so that's, that's what I offer through my website. You can find the article I wrote on gun control and Saturn Aries on my website. And of course, I have all my services there if you're interested. But I will be at UAC next year. I was selected as a new speaker, and I hope to be back at norwac Next year, Patrick.

I really enjoyed your talk on Time Lords that you did. I attended that. Thank you so much. Not sure who else was there, but it was great. So nechep, so software, you want to tell us a little bit about the niche? So software,

yeah, sure. I hope this doesn't come off just like an ad, you know, I will keep it just brief. Just let you know what it is. Well, you know, one of the things that I've been doing with AI since I got a hold of it in 2023 is I got involved in in coding. I don't really know a whole lot about coding, but I've been able to create some little programs and stuff, and I joined forces with John streaker and Nick Dana best, and we put our heads together to think to reimagine a new astrology software that met the needs of astrologers, and kind of moves astrology software into the 20th century.

So nechepso is the result, and we are releasing the chapter to the public on June 17, and we hope you like it. It's full kind of rethink. It's not just charts, you know, it's personal. It's keeping track of your personal transits, and those are, those are the people close to you. It with every chart, there's timelines to add events and timeline displays to graphically display events in a person's life. And we think it's pretty incredible.

And we are also developing an ethically compiled and ethically sourced AI, which we're reducing our environmental impact on that by making it locally hosted on your machines. I'm personally writing some of the data for it myself. We're getting consent for it. So I understand there, there's some good reasons to be skeptical of AI, but we believe that AI can be an assistant. You know, I think the relationship between our tools and ourselves, that's, you know, the tool is to assist you. You know, we don't want it, can't it, shouldn't replace you. And I think that we've tried to strike the right balance of having this than a chip. So AI be able to be kind of the ultimate astrologist assistant, and it's only really going to be useful to someone who knows a lot about astrology.

So that's still on the way, but the the first version of it wouldn't have it, and you wouldn't even have. Use the AI with it if you didn't want to use it. Was still a, you know, great program without it. So, yeah, niche episode. It looks beautiful. I think some of you might even gotten a chance to see it or play around with it, if you were at the norwac conference. And I think it looks pretty cool, right? It's, it's very, it's a very kind of nice, clean, modern set of interface. And, yeah, we hope people like it. So you can, yeah, you can go ahead and check that out the way it looks and what the features it has at niche, so calm,

amazing thing. I couldn't recommend that more highly. My curiosity was peaked at norwac When I saw it being displayed and demoed. Really cool. Very excited about it. Yeah, and really appreciate. I just really appreciate the thoughtful line that you're trying to walk. It's really easy for us to polarize about things that are happening in the world. It's just like, immediately, if you're not a lover, you're a hater of something, you know, it's like you're either all in, all in on one side, or all in on the other side. And I like that you're suggesting a careful, thoughtful holding of tension with these kinds of things.

Yeah. I mean, I use it all the time, and I kind of hate it sometimes, you know, I think the more you the more you familiarize yourself with it, I think the more kind of, I guess, respect or appreciation you kind of have for it, as well as its limitations and, you know, and then that's not to say I've addressed every counter argument against, you know. I think this is an ongoing discussion, you know. And I'm actually, you know, trying to really understand some of the more deeper arguments, you know, kind of against us, so we can make sure that we proceed with this, you know, ethically, responsibly. And obviously the main, you know, goal is accuracy, you know. But we've, we have a system we think that achieves that.

Yeah, yeah, it is that same thoughtfulness and like presence that I think you will find working with Patrick. So I couldn't recommend checking out his work, working with him on your chart, whatever the whatever the interest might be. Patrick Watson, astrology.com, Patrick, thank you so much for being here today. Really appreciate it.

Oh, thank you so much. I really wanted to speak to you the conference. So it's kind of funny that this is the time we ended up speaking together. But yeah, yeah, I loved your talk on the eighth house. And yeah, thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, absolutely can't wait to talk more. Let's see here and gray, I think you're our last one to to close us for the day. Any closing words of advice, thoughts that you have on this transit before we go?

Yeah, well, um, just to reiterate, everybody's already thanking you for for holding this space and organizing this I think that's one piece of advice I would just have for everybody, is this going to be really important with regard to what we've already been talking about, which is could include environmental crises and the difficult trouble people could be having, just with despair at times, and facing the reality of the way things are Changing, just to be really creating, intentional taking the responsibility to create the time and space just to have joyful experiences, to seek pleasure and to get people together in community. Like this event is a really good example that someone just reached out to you, and then you made it happen, and then we're able to have this event that all these other people are also participating in that's going to be really, really important.

I won't speak to all this stuff. Patrick, I think did a really great job of covering lots of very practical things that you can be doing. One thing he did say that I do want to go a little bit more into, is just the importance of also imagining something different, because that really is the that is the total power and potential of what we're facing right now. Even though there are lots many things to be concerned about, we really are in the place where whole new worlds can be built. Things can change. Things will absolutely be changing. And so whatever dream you have to really create that plan and do whatever you can to build it. And you know, while also being in a relationship with other people, inspiring other people to do the same.

I had mentioned Bell Hooks previously, and just want to return to her again, because her book, all about love, got a lot of popularity. Actually, the last time we came together, that year of the Saturn Pluto conjunct. Conjunction and that came out around the time of the waxing square of the cycle. And the quote she has in there that is very much connected to the book is that love is the will to extend oneself for the purpose of nurturing one's own or another spiritual growth. That's actually from the book the road less traveled by M Scott Peck, which actually was not only published at Saturn square Neptune, but he was born with Saturn opposite Neptune. So it's like a triple Saturn Neptune thing going on with that.

But that point she has as well. It's just like, so just to even do a Saturn thing like that, which you know, love can be very Neptunian, but it can also we can get caught up in falling in love, or rushing into things which can be very things can be going on Saturday, Neptune eras, and by actually defining what it is we can be responsible to bring it, to bring it about, and to actually be accountable and responsible to bring that love into the world. And I think thinking about it in terms of nurturing your own as well as someone else's spiritual growth through this time period is going to be really helpful, because that's absolutely what is going to be providing us. Is an really extreme abundance of opportunities for spiritual growth.

And while you know, people aren't going to be going out to be making Saturn in Aries Taoism, because Saturn is in its fall. That does, does not mean you cannot have a devotional relationship with Saturn. So whether you actually practice astrological magic or not just coming into relationship with Saturn and the really good qualities of Saturn. I think it's going to be really helpful through this time period, because there is going to be so much uncertainty, we are going to really have to, at times, trust our own inner knowing and our own ability to have that kind of faith with what we're building and and bringing into the world.

But it's more I can say, but I think I'll, since I'm the last person, I should probably end here, since we're already crossing over three hours, I think at this point. So thank you for inviting me though to speak.

Thank you, gray, yeah, um, I was as you were speaking, I was, I when other people's growth becomes as important, or even sometimes more important than advancing in our own self interest, it's amazing. It's a bit of a paradox that those are sometimes the moments in which we make, we stand to grow the most and achieve the most in our own personal growth. Not suggesting you could become a martyr, perhaps with with Neptune at times, anyone I guess, could run into that complex but I really appreciated that idea of my your victory is my victory. You know, like that, that mentality. I think astrological collaboration is that mentality too.

It's easy in an industry that, in many ways, is about individual practitioners. We've got our workshops, we've got our schools, we've got our content, we've got our platforms, and we have to be tending those spaces regularly to make ends meet, to thrive, to make our businesses grow, whatever. But it's always been my philosophy. And one of the main reasons that I thought, yeah, it's time to do this again, is that I always grow when I start thinking about, how do we help grow the success of the people that were that surround us, you know.

So I just hope that everyone listening to this will kind of feel like, you know, this is, this is a win for building the courage confidence of all of us as astrologers, of all of our offerings, there's a unique group of people that will run across whether you're listening to this and you're an astrologer or you're on the panel and that astrological collaboration is a better model than competition, but it still thrives on the same exact Aries edge, which is like, your success is my success, you know. So I love that point that you made, and just wanted to kind of drive it home myself. Gray. Crawford.net is the place to find Gray. Gray, anything you want to say about your work or just what you're up

to, yeah, so you can follow me there, sort of a Patreon connected there. I recently started doing YouTube videos. You can also follow me there. What's your YouTube handle? Just, sorry. Great. Crawford astrology, I think,

Okay, if you search great Crawford in YouTube search bar, you'll find it. I'm sure

Crawford astrology, it'll come up. Yeah, like Sam, I also teach for Kepler College. I've helped organize a Hellenistic astrology certificates that are happening there now so people can check that out. I'll be teaching as a diet core leasing course later in the year. I'll probably be other be teaching some other courses that I'm not completely sure of yet. Exactly when those are going to be that you can also connect with just by following me on my site, because I'll be announcing when those happen.

I'm currently doing one with, actually Jason, who was just here. I know we're going to do another one later in the year together, which is sort of an experiential astrology course online that's connected also with, like chart work and stuff. And it's been a really cool collaboration that we've been doing so far with that I will also be at UAC speaking with y'all next year. So yeah, thank you. I really enjoyed being here with all of you. Absolutely.

Thank you so much, Sam. I'm forgetting, did I think I started with you? Didn't I you did? Yeah, good. I'm just like, I want to make sure I didn't mess up. Okay, good.

So everybody out there listening. We hope you know this is just our our offering, and it's it's a fun for us to collaborate, and it's also hopefully a service that we can do to people, whether you're studying and learning from this or taking it in on the level of, you know what's going to happen. What do I do with this? But either way, we're just really glad that you were all here today. We today. We peaked at something like 850 people in the live stream at once, maybe about an hour ago. It's been kind of slowly dwindling as we've been closing this down. But a lot of people said, I hope you guys will do this again.

It feels to me like, yeah, like, of course, of course, we should do this even maybe just once a year, coming together and looking at some of the biggest transits of the year, and getting groups of astrologers together like this, because it's amazing. I really felt like we were pinging things off from each other that maybe we can't do sometimes alone, even though I any I would tune into any one of these astrologers content for good guidance, good thoughts, good reflections. But there's something magical that happens when we all get together and things start bouncing around too. So I'd like to try to do this again for sure.

Okay. Well, on that note, I hope you all have a great rest of your day if you want to stay in touch with things that are happening at Nightlight. The best way to do that is to check out Nightlight astrology.com there are transcripts of these daily talks and videos. This live stream will eventually have a transcript that will be there so you can find that we are upcoming year one program starts June 22 so there's some new courses that are running you can check out on the website.

We hope also that if you haven't yet, you'll give a like and subscribe that definitely helps the channel grow and gets the word out there. So we appreciate all of that, and I hope that again, you'll have a great rest of your Sunday. If it's evening where you're at or whatever time zone you're in. Have a good rest of your day, and we'll hope to see you again soon. Bye, everyone. Bye. Thank you.